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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Need Help - Problem with LW. (Read 5962 times)
boho
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Need Help - Problem with LW.
Mar 10th, 2018 at 9:25am
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I hope someone has a fix for this. I am trying to replace the original hammer with a new lighten one from MVA. Side by side they seemed the same but I guess not exact.
Now when I open the action all the way the block and hammer move down too much causing the hammer spur to get stuck inside the action. I think it might have something to do with the extractor. 

  
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marlinguy
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Re: Need Help - Problem with LW.
Reply #1 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 10:25am
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Have you tried putting a common pin through the two hammers to see where the differences are? I can see some differences just looking at the images you posted. Looks like some differences in the cocking notches, and possibly other places also.
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Need Help - Problem with LW.
Reply #2 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 12:43pm
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Since you are after lock time and the part isn't original, my quick and easy solution, is to cut the hammer spur off!

A HW/LW, doesn't need a hammer spur, especially a target rifle. Even in the field it's safer and faster, to carry it with the breech block, part way down, rather than carrying it on half cock.

Another modification to decrease lock time, especially for a flat spring, is to use the half cock notch to fire from. It's fairly easy to increase spring pressure on a flat spring action, if you need more, when using a reconfigured half cock notch to fire the rifle.

Frank
« Last Edit: Mar 10th, 2018 at 3:02pm by frnkeore »  

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JLouis
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Re: Need Help - Problem with LW.
Reply #3 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 5:42pm
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Boho is it showing any rub marks on the back of the hammer spur or possibly elsewhere to help get you pointed in the right direction?

JLouis
  

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boho
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Re: Need Help - Problem with LW.
Reply #4 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 7:02pm
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No John there are no marks. It has to do with where and when the block comes in contact with pivot point of the extractor it's the extractor that stops the block/hammer assembly's downward travel. I already know what I need to do. Just throwing it out there to confirm it. So far that hasn't happened. No Frank, I am not cutting off my hammer spur. Marlinguy, yes I did line them up as you said there is slight differences. 
I did have to stone the full cock notch to keep the hammer from falling when the action was closed. The half cock notch also dosen't engage and still needs stoning.Good eyes! 

Gunsmiths I welcome your thoughts.
  
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boho
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Re: Need Help - Problem with LW.
Reply #5 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 7:03pm
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No John there are no marks. It has to do with where and when the block comes in contact with pivot point of the extractor it's the extractor that stops the block/hammer assembly's downward travel. I already know what I need to do. Just throwing it out there to confirm it. So far that hasn't happened. No Frank, I am not cutting off my hammer spur. Marlinguy, yes I did line them up as you said there is slight differences. 
I did have to stone the full cock notch to keep the hammer from falling when the action was closed. The half cock notch also dosen't engage and still needs stoning.Good eyes! 

Gunsmiths I welcome your thoughts.
  
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BP
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Re: Need Help - Problem with LW.
Reply #6 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 7:16pm
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If it worked correctly beforehand, and you then changed only one part, and you now have a problem, your problem lies only with the one part you've changed.
Don't fix what ain't broke.

  

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boho
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Re: Need Help - Problem with LW.
Reply #7 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 8:44pm
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BP, thank's for your useless reply.
  
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John Taylor
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Re: Need Help - Problem with LW.
Reply #8 - Mar 10th, 2018 at 11:24pm
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The firing pin is holding the hammer back allowing it to hang on the frame.  I can't see how changing the hammer would cause the problem unless the hammer spur is slightly different. Quickest fix would be to take a small amount off the end of the hammer spur so it does not hang up.
  

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steel-pounder
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Re: Need Help - Problem with LW.
Reply #9 - Mar 11th, 2018 at 10:28am
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boho wrote on Mar 10th, 2018 at 8:44pm:
BP, thank's for your useless reply.

that seems like a jerk thing to say to someone offering good advise.  To rephase: if the new hammer is the onlything you changed then the problem you are having is being created by the new part and the new part only so do not go changing working on other pieces that were working before you changed the hammer. personally I would Call MVA and talk to them about the problem.
  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Need Help - Problem with LW.
Reply #10 - Mar 11th, 2018 at 11:27am
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I recall having the same problem in a HW that I rebarreled.  I didn’t have the base for the main spring and was improvising.  The thicker barrel needed a thinner base, and then the end of the hammer dropped into the action, went too far back, and snagged.

What I did was to file the top of the base I made.  IIRC (it was a while ago) this made the mainspring dip downward at a slight angle.  Not enough to seriously add compression to the spring, just enough so that bumpy little tab on the end (designed by a genius!) pushed a little harder on the end of the hammer’s cocking extension (that comma-shaped thing in front).

Suddenly, otherwise inexplicably, the hammer spur still dropped into its slot in the frame, but didn’t go back and snag on it coming back up.  I declared victory, for whatever reason, and went on to other things.

You might try pinching a piece of shim stock between the mainspring and the front and then the rear of your mainspring base, and see if “tilting” the spring slightly helps your problem.  It isn’t a permanent change to any part, so even if it doesn’t help, you’re no worse off.

(By the way, you wouldn’t want to unburden yourself of that ponderous, heavy, jarring, ruinous-to-accuracy old hammer, would you?)  Smiley
« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2018 at 11:33am by Bent_Ramrod »  
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craigd
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Re: Need Help - Problem with LW.
Reply #11 - Mar 11th, 2018 at 4:10pm
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steel-pounder wrote on Mar 11th, 2018 at 10:28am:
....so do not go changing working on other pieces that were working before you changed the hammer. personally I would Call MVA and talk to them about the problem.

It seems logical, but? There's not quite enough info, but it would be tough on MVA to take time and effort on something that may be out of their control. I don't know, do they sell heat treated hammers with the claim to drop in? Maybe, a hope here is to preserve visual case colors.
  
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steel-pounder
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Re: Need Help - Problem with LW.
Reply #12 - Mar 11th, 2018 at 11:06pm
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I don't know weather or not mva claims this is a drop in piece or not but I do know they are very willing to talk to their customers about real or perceived problems.
  
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boho
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Re: Need Help - Problem with LW.
Reply #13 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 6:50pm
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I do apologize to BP that was a jerk thing to say. Sorry. I decided that it just isn't worth the trouble for milli-seconds of lock time. You were right. The problem  with these old rifles is over the years they end up with different parts, blocks, ejectors....Then everything has to hand fitted.
"if it ain't broke don't fix it" good advice. I am sure the hammer would be fine on a MVA or Balard HW. Or one with all it's original parts.
  
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Old-Win
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Re: Need Help - Problem with LW.
Reply #14 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 9:35am
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I bought an MVA Hammer to put in my low wall and it does the same thing. I thought it was because no barrel has been installed yet and the hammer didn't have tension from the lever spring.  Now, I'm not sure.  However I saw that the original Winchester  hammer has two radii on the back of it where the MVA hammer seems to have just one constant radius.   Does anybody know why the original Winchester hammer has two radii?
« Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2018 at 11:18am by Old-Win »  
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