Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) hepburn breech block hardness (Read 6461 times)
steel-pounder
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 172
Joined: Mar 26th, 2016
hepburn breech block hardness
Feb 15th, 2018 at 12:38am
Print Post  
Hi All. I am plugging away at rebuilding an old Remington Hepburn. I have a new breech block for it and am wondering if anyone here can tell me what harness it should be? It is machined from 8620 steel.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SSShooter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2932
Location: Southern NJ
Joined: Aug 1st, 2010
Re: hepburn breech block hardness
Reply #1 - Feb 15th, 2018 at 7:31am
Print Post  
I have my original Hepburn breech-blocks case-hardened along with the action and seems to be hard enough using LR primers. I'll be shooting LP primers this season and will be keeping an eye on the block face to see if that few thousandths of movement back the LP primer will make will hammer the block-face. Am sure my original block is softer than your 8620 in original form, so case-color hardening should make it even more so. I've never measured the hardness, but put at least 15K rounds thru my 40-65 with no noticeable effect.
  

Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
craigd
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2051
Location: midwest
Joined: Feb 22nd, 2009
Re: hepburn breech block hardness
Reply #2 - Feb 15th, 2018 at 9:37am
Print Post  
I believe that steel is considered a case hardening steel, so there may not be a significant range of hardness options through the body of the part. If it is case color hardened and the appearance of colors remain, the hardened skin may not have been tempered back too far. It might also be possible that gun parts could be case colored, but not been at a high enough temperature to case harden.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
steel-pounder
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 172
Joined: Mar 26th, 2016
Re: hepburn breech block hardness
Reply #3 - Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:07am
Print Post  
Thanks SS,   

this is a new un hardened part that I will be heat treating. I would like to know a reccomended hardness for the part. I will carborize and case harden it but plan on Nitre bluing it for a solid color instead of CC hardening.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Chuckster
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2254
Location: Colorado
Joined: May 15th, 2008
Re: hepburn breech block hardness
Reply #4 - Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:31am
Print Post  
8620 will work safely as is, but casehardening will make is work smoother and more wear resistance.
If made from hardenable alloy steel (4140, etc), heat treat to about Rc 40.
Chuck
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16716
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: hepburn breech block hardness
Reply #5 - Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:54am
Print Post  
steel-pounder wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:07am:
Thanks SS,  

this is a new un hardened part that I will be heat treating. I would like to know a reccomended hardness for the part. I will carborize and case harden it but plan on Nitre bluing it for a solid color instead of CC hardening.


My originals are all blued breech blocks, so blued would be standard I believe.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
steel-pounder
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 172
Joined: Mar 26th, 2016
Re: hepburn breech block hardness
Reply #6 - Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:56am
Print Post  
thanks chuckster.  If case hardening would you temper back to 40 hrc or just leave it as hardened?

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
steel-pounder
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 172
Joined: Mar 26th, 2016
Re: hepburn breech block hardness
Reply #7 - Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:58am
Print Post  
marlinguy wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:54am:
steel-pounder wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:07am:
Thanks SS,  

this is a new un hardened part that I will be heat treating. I would like to know a reccomended hardness for the part. I will carborize and case harden it but plan on Nitre bluing it for a solid color instead of CC hardening.


My originals are all blued breech blocks, so blued would be standard I believe.


Thank you MG.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Chuckster
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2254
Location: Colorado
Joined: May 15th, 2008
Re: hepburn breech block hardness
Reply #8 - Feb 15th, 2018 at 12:21pm
Print Post  
SP,  Would leave it as casehardened because the softer core prevents brittleness.
Difficult to measure hardness on casehardened steel because of the softer core.
Nitre bluing after casehardening would make the case slightly softer after bluing but should work just fine.
Chuck
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16716
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: hepburn breech block hardness
Reply #9 - Feb 15th, 2018 at 12:28pm
Print Post  
Chuck, do parts that are casehardened turn odd color when nitre blued? I know if they're hot blued they turn a deep purple, but not familiar with what they do when nitre blued?
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Deadeye Bly
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1088
Location: Stephens City
Joined: Feb 25th, 2011
Re: hepburn breech block hardness
Reply #10 - Feb 15th, 2018 at 8:48pm
Print Post  
8620 is about the best case hardening steel  produced. It has about the same elements as Chrome-moly steel  just less of each. The main use is automotive gears. It can produce a glass hard exterior for wear resistance with a tough core. Yes, it should be case hardened. Tempering into the mid 40's Rc should work OK but I would like mine a little harder. The tough core is your friend.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
steel-pounder
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 172
Joined: Mar 26th, 2016
Re: hepburn breech block hardness
Reply #11 - Feb 15th, 2018 at 10:37pm
Print Post  
thank you for all the help guys
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
John Taylor
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1754
Location: Lewiston, ID
Joined: Oct 23rd, 2006
Re: hepburn breech block hardness
Reply #12 - Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:51pm
Print Post  
I have installed two replacement breach blocks in Hepburns and had both color cased. They don't need to be hard all the way through but should have a case hard. The action will work much smoother if the parts are case hardened.
  

John Taylor   Machinist/gunsmith
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Chuckster
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2254
Location: Colorado
Joined: May 15th, 2008
Re: hepburn breech block hardness
Reply #13 - Feb 16th, 2018 at 9:31am
Print Post  
marlinguy wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 12:28pm:
Chuck, do parts that are casehardened turn odd color when nitre blued? I know if they're hot blued they turn a deep purple, but not familiar with what they do when nitre blued?


Don't know for all casehardening, but standard procedure for screws is: Mild steel, Caseharden with Kasenit, Nitre blue.
No strange colors, prevents screwdriver burring, and a wear resistant shank.
Chuck
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
steel-pounder
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 172
Joined: Mar 26th, 2016
Re: hepburn breech block hardness
Reply #14 - Feb 16th, 2018 at 11:03am
Print Post  
John Taylor wrote on Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:51pm:
I have installed two replacement breach blocks in Hepburns and had both color cased. They don't need to be hard all the way through but should have a case hard. The action will work much smoother if the parts are case hardened.

thank you John>
      I looked up some specs on 8620 and found this. Would like opinions from the experianced smiths here.

Cool From Carburizing Temperature in Carburizing Box, Reheat to Above Upper Critical Temperature of Core, Quench.
    This treatment is applied by allowing the piece to cool in the box to room temperature from the carburizing temperature of 1700F (925C) The piece is then reheated to above 1535F (835C) and quenched in oil. The core will be refined and exhibit maximum strength and hardness. The case will be hardened and somewhat coarsened.

3. Cool From Carburizing Temperature In Carburizing Box, Reheat Only To Above Lower Critical Temperature of the Case, Quench.
    This treatment is applied by allowing the piece to cool in the box from the carburizing temperature of 1700F (925C). The piece is then reheated to above 1350F (730C) and quenched in oil to harden and refine the case. The core will be unrefined, soft and machineable and the case will be hardened.

4. Cool From Carburizing Temperature in Carburizing Box. Reheat to Above Upper Critical Temperature of the Core, Quench. Again Reheat Above Lower Critical Temperature of the Case, Quench.
    This treatment is applied by allowing the piece to cool in the box from the carburizing temperature of 1700F (925C). The piece is then reheated to above 1535F (835C) and oil quenched in oil to refine the core. The piece is again reheated to 1350F (730C) and oil quenched to refine the case. Thus, this double heating and quenching method refines both the case and core. The refined core will be soft and machineable with maximum toughness and resistance to impact. The refined case will be hardened for wear and resistance.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint