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Ron Smith gain twist barrel ? (Read 6132 times)

TWOGUNS Junior Member Offline Posts: 85 Joined: Oct 13^th, 2012	Ron Smith gain twist barrel ? Feb 18^th, 2018 at 4:34pm	Print Post
	Hello I have a Borchardt with a Ron Smith gain twist barrel [45/90] does anyone know the ''rate of twist '' or how its evaluated ? on these barrels as I know nothing about them ,thanks for any enlightenment


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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2371 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Ron Smith gain twist barrel ? Reply #1 - Feb 18^th, 2018 at 5:03pm	Print Post
	That can be pretty tough. I don't suppose that whomever built the rifle put the twist rate on the barrel under the forearm? I have two RKS .45 barrels, one is a gain twist ending in 1:17.5 and the other is a constant twist at 1:16. Chris.


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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4107 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Ron Smith gain twist barrel ? Reply #2 - Feb 18^th, 2018 at 5:49pm	Print Post
	If Ron put the barrel on he stamps the starting and final twist. If someone else chambered and put the RKS barrel on it will not be specified. If you know when the barrel was made and for whom it was made; Ron may have a record of the twist he used to make it. Since the twist changes down the barrel it is hard to measure after the fact.


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Tom_Trevor assra life no.71 Oldtimer Offline Tom Trevor Posts: 701 Location: Granada Hills Ca. Joined: Jun 16^th, 2004	Re: Ron Smith gain twist barrel ? Reply #3 - Feb 18^th, 2018 at 5:51pm	Print Post
	two guns. How does your" gain twist" barrel shoot? Odd as it sound I have had some shooters say "stay away from Gain twist over 40 Cal".???


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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2371 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Ron Smith gain twist barrel ? Reply #4 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 9:24am	Print Post
	Tom, my gain twist .45 barrel shoots quite well, but not any better than constant twist barrels. In theory there should be a little less fouling to deal with as the length of the groove is shorter for any given barrel length, but I do not see any practical difference. Chris.


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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Ron Smith gain twist barrel ? Reply #5 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 2:07pm	Print Post
	My .45 shot well. My test targets were close to MOA out to 500 yards from a rest. It did seem like the velocity was a bit slower than I expected from a 2.6 case full of BP. Not sure if that was from the gain twist. Only 2.6 I ever shot.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4107 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Ron Smith gain twist barrel ? Reply #6 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 2:21pm	Print Post
	Chris: You have shot with Gerard M. at Heffley Creek. He shoots both a .40-65 and a .45-70 with BP in a RKS gain twist barrel on 1885 HighWalls. He is ranked a Master again with the new standards. There is no difference in accuracy between a gain twist or straight twist barrel. Accuracy of RKS barrels is due to their continuous choke and precision machining. However the F-Class shooters have documented a longer life using gain twist barrels with 10% to 15% more bullets fired before they wear out. Ron Smith has been making gain twist barrels for Black Powder shooters since the 1970s. There is no problem with caliber. I have had gain twist barrels in various calibers from .25 RKS to .45-70. My RKS gain twist .45-70 CPA averaged 1.142" for 10 shot groups at 1,186 fps with a 490 grain Lyman 457658 bullet at 100 yards. For hunting it would push the same bullet at 1704 fps using IMR3031. Groups sizes grew 1/2 an inch due to my flinching from the recoil.
	« Last Edit: Feb 19^th, 2018 at 3:02pm by Schuetzendave »

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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2371 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Ron Smith gain twist barrel ? Reply #7 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 4:55pm	Print Post
	Dave, I think you must be replying to Tom's question? I have a few different RKS barrels. The .45 cal RKS barrel that shoots the best for me is Les's old .45-100 Shiloh with the Dan T paper patch chamber. I've got an accurate .32-40 RKS that is quite good ( unknown twist, or even if it's fixed or gain ), and a nice gain twist RKS .38-50 RH that is the bees knees. The gain twist RKS .38-55 on my last CPA is just OK so far, although I haven't done much shooting with it. It has a really tight bore so only one of my molds fits, the rest are too tight for even a Weber seater. Chris.


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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4107 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Ron Smith gain twist barrel ? Reply #8 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 6:09pm	Print Post
	Chris: I have a 310 grain .38 Boomer Money bullet I use in my .38-50 Rem. Hepburn with an Atkinson & Marqaurt 18:1 twist cut rifled barrel. I can send you some if you want to give it a try in your tight bore. I am using 50 grains FFFg with it in fixed cases so you could up it up quite a bit if you are breech seating. Did Les shoot paper patch in the 45-100? Did you buy his mold with the rifle? Did Ron put a tighter twist in your .38-50? Dave
	« Last Edit: Feb 19^th, 2018 at 6:17pm by Schuetzendave »

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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2371 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Ron Smith gain twist barrel ? Reply #9 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 8:03pm	Print Post
	Schuetzendave wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 6:09pm: Chris: I have a 310 grain .38 Boomer Money bullet I use in my .38-50 Rem. Hepburn with an Atkinson & Marqaurt 18:1 twist cut rifled barrel. I can send you some if you want to give it a try in your tight bore. I am using 50 grains FFFg with it in fixed cases so you could up it up quite a bit if you are breech seating. Did Les shoot paper patch in the 45-100? Did you buy his mold with the rifle? Did Ron put a tighter twist in your .38-50? Dave Dave maybe I'll bring that rifle to Kamloops and we can see if your bullet fits. I've been meaning to order a Boomers mold anyway Les's rifle is a dedicated paper patch gun. It'll only chamber bore diameter bullets. The chamber was designed by Dan Theodore but it's just a slight modification that Dan made based on a chamber cast from an original Borchardt Creedmoor rifle owned by Richard Gunn's family. It shoots very well. It's a 1:16 twist RKS heavy barrel ( rifle weighs 15 lbs ). I've got the original mold which was cut for Les by Paul Jones. It's a .445" Money. The 38-50 is actually a rifle I bought used from an ASSRA member. If I remember the twist ends in 1:14. I haven't shot it in a while, but I've been shooting breech seated paper patched bullets out of it. It's a 3.5 profile on an original Winchester DST action. It's a keeper for sure, very accurate with breech seated bullets. I never got it to shoot fixed very well, but I didn't try too long as it's just excellent when breech seating. I've got to try it one of these days with the Hoch tapered bullet. I'll bet it works well. Chris.


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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4107 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Ron Smith gain twist barrel ? Reply #10 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 11:43pm	Print Post
	Chris: I will bring some bullets to Kamloops. Sure wish I could get more Paul Jones moulds. Dave


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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2371 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Ron Smith gain twist barrel ? Reply #11 - Feb 20^th, 2018 at 9:28am	Print Post
	His molds are pretty nice. The few I have came with rifles I bought, or were bought used. I just picked up a .459 Creedmoor PJ mold off of the Canadian Gun Nutz web site. I'll have to wait until spring to see how it casts though. It's got lots of lead build up in the cavity. I have an oddball PJ .38 mold. It looks like an elliptical mini or micro groove for a fast twist. It's almost all nose, the driving bands are probably only 30% of the length. I've cast a few of them but haven't tried them yet. I do have a 1:12 twist barrel here. At one time I wanted to build a fast twist .38-50 RH for silhouette, but I don't think they have much, if any, any advantages over the .40-65's. Chris.


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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4107 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Ron Smith gain twist barrel ? Reply #12 - Feb 20^th, 2018 at 10:05am	Print Post
	Harvey Trace uses a 14:1 gain twist barrel in his Rolling Block .38-50 and shoots Silhouette using a 360 grain Boomer bullet. Seems to knock the Rams down just as good as my 410 grain .40-65. I used his reamer to chamber the .38 caliber barrel I had won to build my .38-50 Remington Hepburn Rolling Block. I have loaned it to my neice who is using it to learn the sport. Knocks the Rams over slowly with the 310 grain bullet. I had the .45 Creedmore PJ mould, a .40 PJ mould, three .32 PJ moulds and a .25 mould. I use the .40 Boomer Money in my .40-65 Shiloh Sharps but the .40 PJ mould works great in my .40-60 Maynard CPA. I used the .45 Creedmore in my .45-70 CPA but had to give it up when I developed bone spurs in my neck.
	« Last Edit: Feb 20^th, 2018 at 10:13am by Schuetzendave »

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oneatatime Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3994 Location: Rocky Mountains Joined: Oct 30^th, 2011	Re: Ron Smith gain twist barrel ? Reply #13 - Feb 20^th, 2018 at 11:41am	Print Post
	Gunlaker, what is the number on your PJ .38 mold?


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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2371 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Ron Smith gain twist barrel ? Reply #14 - Feb 20^th, 2018 at 5:24pm	Print Post
	oneatatime wrote on Feb 20^th, 2018 at 11:41am: Gunlaker, what is the number on your PJ .38 mold? I just had a look, it's a 38009. I measured them after casting a few last year. I don't remember the diameter or weight, but I think it was a .376" or .387" diameter and 360-370gr in 16:1. Chris.


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