Hi all, I was a member of ASSRA back in the 1990s, and shot my Shiloh in many regional and national matches in Raton, since we lived in New Mexico.  But I moved, got busy with family, and didn't really shoot single shots for the past 18 years or so.  Getting back into shooting now, and after I bought a 1930s Winchester 52 with Lyman Targetspot scope, I shot in a couple smallbore silhouette matches to get warmed up.   It's just as fun as it used to be, and I may get my daughter into sil also.  But ever since I was in my early 20s, I loved studying single shots like in the old "More Single Shot Rifles" books.  I ordered that Shiloh when I got out of the Navy, during the time of the 4+ year waits.  

This weekend I'm hoping to purchase a nice Stevens 44 1/2 Schuetzen rifle in .22. I've looked at it once, and it was so nice I'm going back for it.  I don't know the particular model, but have learned it should be stamped on the receiver face, where the forearm goes.   It's got checkered wood, hooked butt, all the trimmings that I can tell.  I'll confirm it's a 44 1/2 because I was too excited to do more than look at the rear screw near the wood...thinking that clinched it.  Now I'll look for the rounded top of the breachblock, and the ears of the block extending down when cocked.  Check the ejection/extraction (which would it be?) and a firing pin strike, is there anything else to check?  Thanks all.

LONG RANGE wrote on Dec 6^th, 2016 at 2:26pm:


Thanks.  Like you said, you don't know what it is, nor the asking price.  I know enough to know it's a deal. That's why I'm here, to get some specifics.  I've been collecting antique guns for 40 years.  Stevens seem to be less documented than many other obscure things I collect.  I do know values, and quality, and condition, and originality, and tang sights, and the Unertl scope on it.  I don't know the specific model (such as is it a 45, 52, etc), but it's a fine looking rifle, and has several fancy features.  

Your statement "I know there are many on this site who love single shot rifles, me included but we are in the minority." confuses me.  If this site and section isn't for questions on a single shot Stevens schuetzen rifle, I guess I'll ask at Rimfire Central.  But I always found the ASSRA back in the 90s was full of experts on these guns.  

To someone that knows Stevens:
1. Will the model number always be stamped at the front of the receiver?
2. Do the most .22 Stevens 44 1/2 frame rifles have ejectors? 
3. Most of the high end models have ring or loop levers.  This one has a standard S lever, does that mean it's a model 45 with fancy wood (it has a cheekpiece)?  Or a 51 or 52 with a "plain" lever?
4. It only has one trigger.  Did Stevens make a single, push-to-set, set trigger?

Sure, here is what I noticed when I first looked at it.

1. Premium walnut stock, with lots of figure.  Obviously original.
2. Checkering at pistol grip and forearm (I believe at front, anyway)
3. Carved cheek piece
4. Swiss buttplate, appears silver plated
5. Regular "S" or one finger lever
6. 2 barrels, both with matching serial numbers.  One in .22 LR, one .22 short.
7. Tang sight.  On this, I forgot to see if it was a Stevens.  Could have been another make, it had a fairly large eyepiece, certainly not a little Lyman with a small loop.   

I didn't take the forearm off.  I don't know how, nor how to take the barrel off.  I've read there is a locking  set screw, but I'm not touching that until I learn the technique.  But can the forearm come off by just taking a screw out?  Thanks!

AZ, I am sorry if you found my remarks offensive. I was simply trying to say that if it were me I would try to be as informed as possible before buying any rifle. You asked some questions and I tried to be as helpful as I know how. I you want details about various models of any American mad single shot rifle, you can find no better source than the book, Single Shot Rifles by James Grant. It will give you no help as to value since it was written in the 1940s. I believe it is still be printing. Sorry again for the misunderstanding.

Great! Thanks for the additional info.  So it sounds like I really have to ask the guy to let me remove the for-end, which I'll do.  Now that I'm in buying mode and will have cash with me, I'll have to really check it out carefully, but his price is good.  I think if I made a mistake, and it's just a model 44, I may back out.  But otherwise, the deal is on. I'll show it if I get it.

waterman wrote on Dec 6^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:


Cleaning?  You clean "ordinary" (as opposed to the best BR barrels capable of one-hole groups at 50 yds) .22RFs?   

But I agree with your opinion of 44s, though that doesn't mean they're worth as much (in terms of filthy lucre) as 44-1/2s.

You asked if original Stevens had a single set trigger. The answer is yes.  Way to check if it is on the gun you are contemplating is to push the trigger forward and see if it sets.

I have on on an original 28-30-120 model 44 1/2.  When I first got the gun it was working and was very nice.  It is currently not working and is at a gunsmith for repair.   

From what I have read, these triggers were very prone to stop working.

You are correct, setting the SST trigger only required a pound of two.

Mine still was able to be shot even without the SST being able to set.

If it does have a SST  and you need it worked on Lee Shaver is knowledgeable on these triggers and a very good craftsman.  That is who has mine now.

AZshot wrote on Dec 7^th, 2016 at 9:53am:


And those "few" are usually buried in work!  So unless you have a personal friend in the trade, anticipate many months of waiting.

OK, I'm prepared to go either get it, or pass, depending on what it is.   

I thought I could gauge prices on guns pretty well, but Stevens are not easy.  And I've never really followed them.  I see some nice ones that look similar on the "George" website and others asking for above $3,000 for most.  Then I see this one sell on Gunbroker for only $1500  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) .  So now I'm getting scared I may pay too much.  His price is firm, he just reminded me, mid way between $2k and $3K.  It does have 2 barrels with matching serial numbers and an Unertl scope on one, and a tang sight.  Can someone tell me if these assumptions are correct:

- If it's a Ladies, the preferred model is 56 over 55, with the 044 1/4 action.
- If it's a 55, I should pass on it?
- If it's a Ladies based on the Favorite, it's still preferable over the 55?
- If it's some other model on a 44 1/2, it should be bought.
- If it's a 44 action, I should pass on it at that price?   

I know, gosh I wish I'd asked to take photos.  I was trying to be respectful, they were his dads guns, and he'd passed only a year before.  He also said he was not in a hurry to sell, but I noted he had taken it to a local gun shop already to get an idea of what they'd  sell it for on commission.  I wanted to move quickly, but not act too excited.

I've met several sellers that are old school.  I buy a LOT of antiques.  They don't want someone to come in and say "I might buy your gun, but let me take pictures, go to the internet and library, research if your price is in my favor, and then I'll come back."  Many are 'take it or leave it' sellers.  I bought a Winchester 52 with a Lyman Targetspot scope like that.  The guy told me stories of other potential buyers pulling the "I need to research it" line.  He was not amused, and would not sell to them. It does one of two things.  It shows you are unaware of the values, or it causes them to be curious and go looking it up more thoroughly themselves.  You basically scare them off.  Instead of doing all that, I went in very prepared and knew the $600 was a great price for that 52 and scope (duh!).  Same with a Colt Pre-war ACE (in box, 99%) I bought from a guy.  If I had acted coy or excited to research the price, the pistol would have gone from $1200 to $2500 next time I met him.  Honey holes are sometimes guarded by crotchety gatekeepers.   

This seller is the same way.  He is on the cusp of not selling his dad's guns.  He gave me a list with prices of 20 guns.  99% were overpriced.  I picked one, a Winchester, that was very nice and priced right.  I passed on the others, many quite rare and mint condition antique guns.  Later, he realized he priced it too low, probably.  Hence, last night when setting up to meet again, he said "I've been checking and my price is good, some say too low..."  If I dork around with asking for pictures, he knows what I'm doing.  I have to bite the bullet and buy...or pass. You play around with these guys and the next call they say "I've decided not to sell..or..I found another guy that offered me $500 more on the spot...sorry" etc. I've been wheeling and dealing for a very long time....I know what I'm doing.  Just not the price of this gun give or take $700 or so.  I prefer to be give or take $100 in my estimates.

I don't really think he would have cared if I asked to take photos.  But I was trying to play it cool, having just bought that Winchester off him.  And I've missed many guns over the years by waiting "to think about it" too.  

Once, in New Mexico, before the internet was very big in the 1990s, a guy was advertising a Ballard in the local Dandy Dime paper.  I called him, and he brought it over to my house.  At the time, I had my Shiloh, a Trapdoor, and not much else.  But i'd been oogling all the obscure single shots in all the classic books for 10 or more years.  He arrived at the door with the rifle, a mid-range of some sort, with a tang sight and Marbles flip front.  It was in a good caliber, and had a ring lever. It was his grandfather's.  I loved it, he wanted $900.  As I started to negotiate, my wife started mouthing "we can't afford it..." to me.  We'd only been married 2-3 years.  I stalled, trying to think of a way to come up with "non-family money", and it was sold a few days later.  

After that and a few others, I learned to jump when the price is right, like the Win 52 I got a year ago.  That was another guy, retired, and I'd seen the rifle a few years before and told him if he ever wanted to sell it, call me.  Ironically, my wife was with me this time too, when I bumped into him in town.  He said he knew I wanted it, and would give me a really good price.  I figured $1500 or so.  I said I just didn't have the money.  He kept coaxing me, and finally said, "how about $600?"  I drove over, left the wife in the car, and got it!

To add to StevenHall's response on removing the barrel. Before you can unscrew the barrel you will need to open the action so the extractor will be clear of the extractor slot in the barrel. Believe it or not I have owned takedown single shots that were hammered on the receiver ring by a former owner who did not know he had to open the action to get the barrel to unscrew.

Wow, that's a shame.  Thanks for the tip, I'm usually pretty careful when working on my antique guns,  and might have figured out to lower the action.  But I'm thankful you told me!   

So today is the day!  I figured out the scope is an 18X Unertl.  So that is way after the period, as I knew Unertls were.  Would it lower the value, that there is a 1950s scope and blocks on one of the barrels?  Would you replace the Unertl with an older Fecker or such?  I think I would.  But where to put the nice Unertl?!

I'll let yall know if I get it.

Any Unertl scope would be an added value to the Stevens. It wouldn't detract from it's value even if it is 1950's era. If you indeed wanted to find an old Stevens scope to have on a Stevens rifle, it might cost whatever you sold the Unertl for, or at least close to it. But depending on which Stevens scope, you may pocket some difference.

I bought one last Spring on Gunbroker for about $350, in very good condition. It's not a top-line model, though. I've been watching for years, and that's the only one that's ever come up.  No other bidders.

uscra112 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2016 at 2:43pm:


Excellent price, but you're looking in the wrong place!  Ebay is where you should be looking.

Most the early Stevens were built by others. Cataract or Malcolm, so they used their mounts. The late 1890's #1 mount was indeed crude, as it didn't even have windage adjustment. But the #2 or #3 mounts were pretty nice 3 point mounts. The Malcolm mounts were even nicer. The "Favorite" #1 was a much later mount, not coming into use until Stevens started their own scope making around 1905. 
Both of my long Stevens scopes are on .22 caliber Ballard rifles. One on an early flat top #3 and the other on a late concave top #3. The flat top got the shorter scope as it had been D&T for a scope sometime in it's life and I never could find the right length until I stumbled on the Stevens. The other #3 got the long scope mounted in the factory dovetails.
For .22RF rifles these old Stevens are a wonderful scope, and I really enjoy how they work, and even more so how they look. 
I have another old Stevens 32" scope that is fitted with Malcolm long range rear mount. Haven't found the right gun to put it on yet, but it will certainly be a larger bore CF chambering. Likely .32-40 or .38-55 caliber. I have a very nice #4 Perfection Ballard in .32-40 with a full octagon 26" barrel, and I think the 32" Stevens scope would be long enough for that gun.

I got it!  Measured the receiver width, it's a 044 1/2 action.  I started to have a hunch it was a Ladies model, and told the seller that I'd know if it had a 56 under the fore end.  I took it off, and there it was, a 56 stamped.  I also noted the wood had a stamped serial number that matches the others.  The trigger strap, and BOTH barrels have the same serial number.  It has a Lyman rear site, and I'm not sure what kind of globe front with apertures.  The Unertl is on the 24 inch .22 LR barrel, which seems like a heavy configuration.  It is about 11/16 dia at the muzzle.  You can barely see the .22 Short barrel beside my shooting box.  It has a 26 inch barrel, lighter configuration.  The front sight doesn't appear to have any markings.   

More pictures when the light comes up.

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Gorgeous--worth whatever you paid for it, and then some. The Unertl, superb optical qualities notwithstanding, seems out of place, but you can probably sell it for considerably more than the cost of something that's a better period match.

Man, this just keeps getting better!  Like when I was a little kid, sneaking down to the Christmas tree, I got up before dawn (like every morning actually) and took a look at the rifle again.  Just now, I held it up and felt how steady it feels at my shoulder (and how small that swiss buttplate is on my arm!).  

Then I remembered the one thing I never checked - does it have a set trigger?  I pulled it down off my shoulder and rotated it to see the trigger.  I remember one of you saying set ones have a screw, and had seen a picture. I see a gap, and a screw, could it be?!  I cocked it, and pushed the trigger forward, with anticipation.  CLICK!  It has a set trigger!
Thanks for all your help and expertise, which as I knew, I'd not find anywhere else on these uncommon ones.  Range report soon!

Yeah, it's a beaut.  I just got enough light to get a good shot of the wood.  Mighty fine, the guy that sold it had a dark interior to his house.  I could see it was good wood, but not enough to really see it. By rigors of competition, do you mean guys sitting behind the line in tweed sports coats, smoking cigars, and talking as they clean their Ballards and Maynards for the next round?  It's still like that isn't it?  Also, could you see my next post/page, question on the best hammer position for opening these. 

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AZshot
That's a really nice rifle you have acquired.
If you are located in Az, we have a small but active Schuetzen Verein that meets at Ben Avery Shooting Facility (BASF) north of Phoenix.
On Dec 17 we will have an all day practice session at the BASF bench rest range. There should be several of our guys shooting 22RF. You and your new rifle will fit right in with with our group.
You are welcome (as is anyone) to come out and join us. Email or PM me and I can provide more details and 2017 schedule.

That's a gorgeous Stevens you've purchased AZshot! The condition is fantastic, and having scope and two barrels is great! Not many Stevens built with single set triggers, so that's an unusual option on your gun! 
Of course you could shoot it in competition, but it is always a risk of a bump or ding every time you take a  gun out, so "rigorous" competitive shooting just means you're going to be shooting it a lot, so more chances to bump it.
I always lower the block with the hammer down. Not sure it matters on a Stevens, but it's safer to raise the block on a live round with the hammer down.

marlinguy wrote on Dec 11^th, 2016 at 10:48am:


This is the danger--you're distracted by the commotion going on all around you, and none of the crowd at such an event are going to be looking out for your gun.

About 30 yrs ago I traveled to a BP silhouette competition thinking it might be something I'd like to do with one of my precious original Ballards; five minutes observation of the dust clouds produced as shooters shook out their shooting mats, along with the general commotion, was all needed to see to convince me otherwise!

Redsetter wrote on Dec 11^th, 2016 at 11:29am:


My mistake. I meant to say most of the early scopes offered by Stevens were Cataract or Malcom.  Sorry I miss typed that, which appeared like I meant they were Stevens marked. wasn't what I was trying to infer.

I agree with Vall.
It's the same for people who restore old cars to better than original and trailer them to shows, take them home and wash and wax everything including the chassis.
The rifles are meant to be shot and the cars to be driven.
More power to you if you just collect and never shoot, I don't shoot much myself.
But it's not because I'm afraid to use my best rifle, where's the fun in that?
Aaron

AZshot wrote on Dec 11^th, 2016 at 12:02pm:


New $5000 guns, or originals that have been "customized," or originals in beater condition...no problem.  But a very rare gun in apparently immaculate condition is quite a different proposition, I think.

Hunting in good terrain (not scaling cliffs, for ex.) in good weather (i.e., not in a rain or snow storm) is far less hazardous, I think, because there are no other people around to distract you, like the guy who started talking to me while I was loading my boat at a public boat launch, causing me to go off and leave a $1000 bamboo rod that was gone when I went back to look for it.  I've hunted with many of my prized antique guns, though none of them, I have to say, in such beautiful condition as your Stevens.

I remember Doug from the time he'd rent one or two tables to display his work at the formerly great Syracuse show, where many fine SSs showed up...30+ yrs ago!  Had a feeling that lad was going places!

Well, shooting it is a done deal.  My daughter and I just got back from the range, where we had quite a good time shooting this old beauty.  The set trigger is nice, not too light, perhaps a pound or two.  The first two shots were almost on top of each other, but at short range to check the scope.  It was close enough, so I shot the rest of the time at 50 yards.  It seems very accurate, but there was a coming and going cross breeze.  About 1.2" groups.  

My 22 year old daughter seems to have shot better than me.

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Way to go Amelia! AZ, you done good too. 

Now the fun really begins,   testing to find the "right" ammo (and buying as much of it as possible), learning all about "conditions", all the tools nick-necks and bench gear. etc etc etc 

welcome to the madness,   enjoy the company of cranks, nuts and passionate enthusiasts.

See you tomorrow Scott!

Here it is with the light, .22 Short barrel.  I wanted to play with the 103 tang sight, it's pretty neat.  The rifle feels totally different, this much lighter.  I need to weigh it with both barrels, but all the "ladies" in my house seemed to like it better with the light barrel installed. 

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It was a pleasure meeting you too Scott, you are a testament to the continuation of gentlemen target shooters.

Beautiful Rifle!
Truer words could not have been spoken about Scott he is a tremendous blessing to the sport and one who's ongoing efforts I truly do admire.

Yours Sincerely
John Louis