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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ballard, what is it? (Read 16089 times)
frnkeore
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Ballard, what is it?
Feb 11th, 2017 at 5:58pm
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I just bought this today. Is it a standard 3F with DST or something else?

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frnkeore
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #1 - Feb 11th, 2017 at 6:00pm
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Last one.
  

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Redsetter
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #2 - Feb 11th, 2017 at 6:44pm
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Ain't nuttin' "standard" about it, but Dutcher shows a super-deluxe DST #3 with the same lever. Trying to pin a model name or number on any special order gun is an exercise in futility.

I like it a lot, and no doubt you'll spruce it up!  

PS, If this was really a 3F, it would have the same plate as your re-stocked Pacific has; guess you could swap them, if you don't mind a little whittln'!
« Last Edit: Feb 11th, 2017 at 7:14pm by Redsetter »  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #3 - Feb 11th, 2017 at 7:31pm
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No problem putting a model number to that Ballard at all. You nailed it in your first guess. It is all standard #3 Gallery, with special order DST. The Pacific style lever was standard when ordering DST on any straight grip Ballard.
A #3F Fine Gallery has the small Farrow buttplate, and loop lever with pistol grip frame and stocks.
Great find by the way! Any #3 with set triggers is a tough one to find! I don't own one, and haven't seen one for sale in a very long time.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #4 - Feb 11th, 2017 at 8:14pm
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These are all #3 Ballards Frank.

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Top is a very early JM Marlin #3 with special order shadowline cheekpiece and ebony tip. Also special order buttplate. The early JM Marlin marked #3 has a flat top receiver, instead of the concave top used on Marlin Firearms Co. marked #3 rifles. Suprisingly it has the later MFACO. S type lever, so late in JM production. It is a flat top receiver, and has the extra heavy barrel that some early #3 rifles had.
2nd down is a #3F standard configuration, except for optional checkering on the pistol grip area, and cheekpiece. They usually came plain, with no checkering and no cheekpiece.
3rd down is another early JM Marlin #3 with the ring lever used on most early JM marked Ballard rifles. It also has the horn inlay in the forearm found on early JM Marlin guns. But it has the concave top receiver of a later gun also.
4th down is a fairly late #3 Ballard with all the standard features. Light barrel, concave top receiver, S lever, plain stocks. Presentation gun to Lieut. Charles Phillips from the 4th Maine Artillery, 3rd Regiment. Later to retire as Brig. Gen. Phillips.
5th down is just another copy of 4th down, except it is marked "Rebored by J Stevens  .25 RF"
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #5 - Feb 12th, 2017 at 1:51am
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I took the forearm off tonight and found this "S" on the face of the frame.

What does it indicate?

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sharps4590
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #6 - Feb 12th, 2017 at 7:16am
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marlinguy, you owe me a keyboard.  Had you not posted those pictures I wouldn't have drooled enough to ruin my other.  Aw...second thought, never mind.  This old one seems to be working fine.  Absolutely lovely rifles.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #7 - Feb 12th, 2017 at 11:25am
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sharps4590 wrote on Feb 12th, 2017 at 7:16am:
marlinguy, you owe me a keyboard.  Had you not posted those pictures I wouldn't have drooled enough to ruin my other.  Aw...second thought, never mind.  This old one seems to be working fine.  Absolutely lovely rifles.


Thank you!

Not sure what the "S" might mean Frank. I'm also not sure if any of my Ballard rifles has it, and I'm curious too, so I'll have to check mine too.
  

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kensmachine
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #8 - Feb 12th, 2017 at 12:30pm
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S = set tirgger
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #9 - Feb 12th, 2017 at 12:52pm
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kensmachine wrote on Feb 12th, 2017 at 12:30pm:
S = set tirgger


Ken, is that a guess or do you have reference for it?

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #10 - Feb 12th, 2017 at 7:07pm
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kensmachine wrote on Feb 12th, 2017 at 12:30pm:
S = set tirgger


Well now I'm definitely going to pull the forearms on all my set trigger Ballard rifles to see if I find that S!
  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #11 - Feb 12th, 2017 at 7:34pm
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Let us know, I'm lazy  Grin
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #12 - Feb 12th, 2017 at 8:33pm
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OK, I drug 10 set trigger Ballard rifles out and pulled the forearms off, and all had a "S" on  the receiver, except one. That one is one of my Schoyen Ballards, so figured it might have the wrong breech block in it. But removed the breech block also, and it's matching. But I figured maybe it had the receiver faced off, since it's a highly modified Ballard. Who knows?
Then I dug out a dozen more Ballard rifles, and stumbled across a special order #2 with DST also! It did not have the "S", but breech block matches. Maybe a mistake or oversight?
So I figured why not check single trigger models! First one I pulled was that presentation #3 to Lt. Phillips, and it has an "S". Then pulled another with optional special sights, and it had an "S". Then a #3F with the special order checkering, and cheek piece, but no "S". 
After going through every gun, pulling forearms and breech blocks, to ensure all matched, and no swapped parts; I came away still puzzled. I found all but the Schoyen and the #2 .38 Long with set triggers had the "S". But found 6 single trigger Ballard rifles with the "S", and only 4 of those had special order features.
So with a couple dozen guns checked, I'm not sure if this is a good representation of a true investigation. But in this small number I found discrepancies of set trigger guns without the S. I found single trigger guns with the "S". And I found special order guns with and without the "S".
But for now I'd definitely say the "S" means something other than  set trigger, since in this small test group I found it on as many non set trigger guns as I did set trigger. And since I found it on standard guns, and special order guns, I doubt it means "special order" either. 
Still a mystery to me.
  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #13 - Feb 13th, 2017 at 1:48am
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Maybe "Sam" fitted the breech block?  Roll Eyes  Thanks for the report Val.
  

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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #14 - Feb 13th, 2017 at 2:52pm
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Vall answered the question  as to what the "S" means in this phrase:  "But for now I'd definitely say the "S" means something"
  

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