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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Introduction and a Stevens - UPDATE got it (Read 31778 times)
AZshot
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Introduction and a Stevens - UPDATE got it
Dec 6th, 2016 at 1:18pm
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Hi all, I was a member of ASSRA back in the 1990s, and shot my Shiloh in many regional and national matches in Raton, since we lived in New Mexico.  But I moved, got busy with family, and didn't really shoot single shots for the past 18 years or so.  Getting back into shooting now, and after I bought a 1930s Winchester 52 with Lyman Targetspot scope, I shot in a couple smallbore silhouette matches to get warmed up.   It's just as fun as it used to be, and I may get my daughter into sil also.  But ever since I was in my early 20s, I loved studying single shots like in the old "More Single Shot Rifles" books.  I ordered that Shiloh when I got out of the Navy, during the time of the 4+ year waits.  

This weekend I'm hoping to purchase a nice Stevens 44 1/2 Schuetzen rifle in .22. I've looked at it once, and it was so nice I'm going back for it.  I don't know the particular model, but have learned it should be stamped on the receiver face, where the forearm goes.   It's got checkered wood, hooked butt, all the trimmings that I can tell.  I'll confirm it's a 44 1/2 because I was too excited to do more than look at the rear screw near the wood...thinking that clinched it.  Now I'll look for the rounded top of the breachblock, and the ears of the block extending down when cocked.  Check the ejection/extraction (which would it be?) and a firing pin strike, is there anything else to check?  Thanks all.
« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2016 at 9:32pm by AZshot »  
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LONG RANGE
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Re: Introduction and a Stevens
Reply #1 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 2:26pm
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AZ, I have no idea what rifle you are looking at or what the asking price is but from what you have stated you need to learn a bit more than you know at this time. I have a model 404 that was built on the 44-1/2  "0" frame. The "0" was stamped on the front of the action.The ladies model was also built on this frame. Mine has auto ejectors but not set triggers. It is very accurate but I rarely shoot it. I just prefer shooting larger calibers. My advise to you would be to do a bit more research before buying the rifle. I know there are many on this site who love single shot rifles, me included but we are in the minority. Attached is my 404.
  
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AZshot
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Re: Introduction and a Stevens
Reply #2 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 3:08pm
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LONG RANGE wrote on Dec 6th, 2016 at 2:26pm:
AZ, I have no idea what rifle you are looking at or what the asking price is but from what you have stated you need to learn a bit more than you know at this time. I have a model 404 that was built on the 44-1/2  "0" frame. The "0" was stamped on the front of the action.The ladies model was also built on this frame. Mine has auto ejectors but not set triggers. It is very accurate but I rarely shoot it. I just prefer shooting larger calibers. My advise to you would be to do a bit more research before buying the rifle. I know there are many on this site who love single shot rifles, me included but we are in the minority. Attached is my 404.


Thanks.  Like you said, you don't know what it is, nor the asking price.  I know enough to know it's a deal. That's why I'm here, to get some specifics.  I've been collecting antique guns for 40 years.  Stevens seem to be less documented than many other obscure things I collect.  I do know values, and quality, and condition, and originality, and tang sights, and the Unertl scope on it.  I don't know the specific model (such as is it a 45, 52, etc), but it's a fine looking rifle, and has several fancy features.  

Your statement "I know there are many on this site who love single shot rifles, me included but we are in the minority." confuses me.  If this site and section isn't for questions on a single shot Stevens schuetzen rifle, I guess I'll ask at Rimfire Central.  But I always found the ASSRA back in the 90s was full of experts on these guns.  

To someone that knows Stevens:
1. Will the model number always be stamped at the front of the receiver?
2. Do the most .22 Stevens 44 1/2 frame rifles have ejectors? 
3. Most of the high end models have ring or loop levers.  This one has a standard S lever, does that mean it's a model 45 with fancy wood (it has a cheekpiece)?  Or a 51 or 52 with a "plain" lever?
4. It only has one trigger.  Did Stevens make a single, push-to-set, set trigger?

« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2016 at 5:23pm by AZshot »  
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calledflyer
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Re: Introduction and a Stevens
Reply #3 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 3:44pm
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AZshot, I think he was just affirming that the site it the place for info about the single shot rifle. However, he probably also meant for you to give a few particulars to sort out the rifle, so's to avoid making any identification mistakes. Stick with these guys, they'll get ya going again soon. Welcome back, good to have ya.
  
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AZshot
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Re: Introduction and a Stevens
Reply #4 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 4:11pm
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Sure, here is what I noticed when I first looked at it.

1. Premium walnut stock, with lots of figure.  Obviously original.
2. Checkering at pistol grip and forearm (I believe at front, anyway)
3. Carved cheek piece
4. Swiss buttplate, appears silver plated
5. Regular "S" or one finger lever
6. 2 barrels, both with matching serial numbers.  One in .22 LR, one .22 short.
7. Tang sight.  On this, I forgot to see if it was a Stevens.  Could have been another make, it had a fairly large eyepiece, certainly not a little Lyman with a small loop.   

I didn't take the forearm off.  I don't know how, nor how to take the barrel off.  I've read there is a locking  set screw, but I'm not touching that until I learn the technique.  But can the forearm come off by just taking a screw out?  Thanks!
  
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StevenHall
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Re: Introduction and a Stevens
Reply #5 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 4:40pm
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Yes, just take the screw out and the forearm will come off. The screw for the barrel is the one at the bottom front of the receiver. Just take it out and unscrew the barrel. They are only hand tight.
  
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LONG RANGE
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Re: Introduction and a Stevens
Reply #6 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 4:40pm
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AZ, I am sorry if you found my remarks offensive. I was simply trying to say that if it were me I would try to be as informed as possible before buying any rifle. You asked some questions and I tried to be as helpful as I know how. I you want details about various models of any American mad single shot rifle, you can find no better source than the book, Single Shot Rifles by James Grant. It will give you no help as to value since it was written in the 1940s. I believe it is still be printing. Sorry again for the misunderstanding.
  
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Re: Introduction and a Stevens
Reply #7 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 5:01pm
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AZshot wrote on Dec 6th, 2016 at 4:11pm:

But can the forearm come off by just taking a screw out? 

Removing the screw that holds the forearm to the bottom of the barrel will allow you to remove the forearm and then let you see the model number stamped in the face of the frame. The fancier/higher grade models regularly had a longer length forearm held to the bottom of the barrel using two screws.
You don't need to remove the barrel to see the model number that was stamped on the lower front of the frame.

AZshot wrote on Dec 6th, 2016 at 3:08pm:
 
1. Will the model number always be stamped at the front of the receiver?

Normally, yes. But exercise extreme caution because after the passage of so many years, some rifles have been built up by gun cranks who started with a lower grade model and added parts that came from other rifles to create what appears to be a fancier/higher grade model, so the number on the frame may not tell you the entire story.

2. Do the most .22 Stevens 44 1/2 frame rifles have ejectors?

Some do and some don't. If you look closely at the picture provided by Long Range, you will see a screw in the frame positioned slightly forward of the front of the breech block (his doesn't appear to have a domed head and may have been cut with a flat head to allow flush mounting of a receiver sight), which would indicate that particular frame started out with an ejector. If there is no screw in that position, it should use an extractor. 

3. Most of the high end models have ring or loop levers.  This one has a standard S lever, does that mean it's a model 45 with fancy wood (it has a cheekpiece)?  Or a 51 or 52 with a "plain" lever?

It's all guessing until you actually see the numbers on the front of the frame.

4. It only has one trigger.  Did Stevens make a single, put to set, set trigger?

Yes Stevens did make and offer a single-set trigger as an option.


The original Stevens basic 44 1/2 frame measures ~ 1 1/8" across the frame. The narrower 044 1/2 frame (and 56 Ladies Model) measures ~ 1" across the frame.
  

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AZshot
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Re: Introduction and a Stevens
Reply #8 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 5:21pm
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Great! Thanks for the additional info.  So it sounds like I really have to ask the guy to let me remove the for-end, which I'll do.  Now that I'm in buying mode and will have cash with me, I'll have to really check it out carefully, but his price is good.  I think if I made a mistake, and it's just a model 44, I may back out.  But otherwise, the deal is on. I'll show it if I get it.
  
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waterman
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Re: Introduction and a Stevens
Reply #9 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 9:17pm
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The front of the action will also have a small "0" in the lower corner.  The meaning is another Stevens mystery.  The front of the action may also have "EX" which means it was a special order of some sort.  To find out, all you need is a good screwdriver.

If it is a .22 rimfire, all the extras gained from the 44 1/2 action don't gain much, if anything.  I find the need to hold the hammer back a PITA when it comes to cleaning, etc.

I have shot a lot of Stevens 44s and one 44 1/2 in .22 rimfire.  Personally, and because it is a .22 rimfire, I would rather have the 44 than the upgrade.  I shoot a lot of .22 rimfires.
  
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Re: Introduction and a Stevens
Reply #10 - Dec 7th, 2016 at 12:49am
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waterman wrote on Dec 6th, 2016 at 9:17pm:
I find the need to hold the hammer back a PITA when it comes to cleaning, etc...


Cleaning?  You clean "ordinary" (as opposed to the best BR barrels capable of one-hole groups at 50 yds) .22RFs?   

But I agree with your opinion of 44s, though that doesn't mean they're worth as much (in terms of filthy lucre) as 44-1/2s.
  
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AZshot
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Re: Introduction and a Stevens
Reply #11 - Dec 7th, 2016 at 7:23am
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Thanks Waterman.  I take it the hammer of a 44.5 is in the line of the bore.  Could you take a piece of rubber surgical tubing, and "tie down" the hammer to clear the rod?

What other features of the 44 1/2 are not useful?  All I've gleaned is the frame is forged, versus cast.  To me, forged is slightly better because the steel is stronger than cast iron. Screwholes and internal fittings may not wallow out as fast.  I see the receiver is wider. The falling block may be stronger, but does it take more effort to open or something?  Does it not cam a cartridge into the bore, compared to the tilting action? Anything else that was changed? 
  
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Stevens 44 1/2 SST triggers
Reply #12 - Dec 7th, 2016 at 8:12am
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You asked if original Stevens had a single set trigger. The answer is yes.  Way to check if it is on the gun you are contemplating is to push the trigger forward and see if it sets.

I have on on an original 28-30-120 model 44 1/2.  When I first got the gun it was working and was very nice.  It is currently not working and is at a gunsmith for repair.   

From what I have read, these triggers were very prone to stop working.
  
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AZshot
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Re: Introduction and a Stevens
Reply #13 - Dec 7th, 2016 at 9:53am
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Thanks Traveler, I was thinking this morning about when I go see it, how hard I should push the trigger forward to test if it's a set type.  The ones I've played with in the past are only a few pounds, then you hear a click.  But like you said, I was worried about breaking something.  To me, that's the key for the purchase: the rifle has to work.  I do not want a shelf queen, I want a classic to shoot.  And gunsmiths are few today that really know their salt.  I'm going to take some empty .22 cases, and see if I get primer strikes and ejection too.
  
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Re: Introduction and a Stevens
Reply #14 - Dec 7th, 2016 at 12:41pm
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You are correct, setting the SST trigger only required a pound of two.

Mine still was able to be shot even without the SST being able to set.

If it does have a SST  and you need it worked on Lee Shaver is knowledgeable on these triggers and a very good craftsman.  That is who has mine now.
  
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