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texasmac
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Lead, lead, led & leade
May 3rd, 2015 at 11:50am
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It’s obvious that lead is the main element in cast bullets and all are aware of the old adage “you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink”.  And surely you’ve led a group of folks at one time or another.  But many of us inadvertently use lead when referring to the ramped transition from the chamber or free bore to the lands, for which leade is the more correct term.  Many, many years ago when, as a novice shooter, I was reading and learning about chambers and bores, I remember this being a point of confusion.

SAAMI (Sporting Arms & Manufacturer’s Institute) defines leade as: “That section of the bore of a rifled gun barrel located immediately ahead of the chamber in which the rifling is conically removed to provide clearance for the seated bullet”.  The key word here is “conically”, as in cone-shaped, otherwise completely removing the rifling results in free bore, defined by SAAMI as the: “A cylindrical length of bore in a firearm just forward of the chamber in which rifling is not present”.  But SAAMI does recognize that lead and leade are used interchangeably by some.

When writing about chambers and bores it helps me to remember to use the correct spelling if I think of leade as an abbreviation or contraction of the leading edge of the lands.

Wayne
  

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JS47
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Re: Lead, lead, led & leade
Reply #1 - May 3rd, 2015 at 11:57pm
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It's my understanding that the "throat" is the combination of leade and freebore, if any.  Am I correct?

My spell checker says that we're both wrong about the spelling of leade and freebore. Huh
  
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waterman
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Re: Lead, lead, led & leade
Reply #2 - May 4th, 2015 at 2:15am
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I wrote an article about one of my Low Walls that I called "The First Superbowl".  My spellchecker insisted it was "Superb Owl".
  
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texasmac
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Re: Lead, lead, led & leade
Reply #3 - May 4th, 2015 at 2:35am
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JS47 wrote on May 3rd, 2015 at 11:57pm:
It's my understanding that the "throat" is the combination of leade and freebore, if any.  Am I correct?

My spell checker says that we're both wrong about the spelling of leade and freebore. Huh


Stockerman,

This can get complicated.  There's a good bit of confusion on the definitions of leade, freebore and throat.  SAAMI says leade and throat are synonymous, which most likely originated when it was not common to find freebore in a rifle.  SAAMI also says the throat and leade are the same as "Ball Seat", a military term derived from cartridges with full metal jackets referred to as ball ammunition.

As noted earlier, leade is essentially the leading edge or sloped (ramped) portion of the rifling lands.  The angle of the ramp is called the leade angle.

Contrary to SAAMI's definition, I agree with the current definition used by many writers and firearm glossaries which defines the throat as the section that starts at the beginning of the chamber transition and ends when the lands are at full height.  Therefore, the throat includes the chamber transition step, freebore if it exists, the transition region from the freebore to leade (if the freebore diameter is larger than the groove diameter) and the leade.  

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, see the illustration below, which describes the Browning .40-65 and .45-90 throats with freebore diameters slightly larger than the groove diameters.  BTW, don't be surprised if some readers disagree with my definitions.

Also, to complicate this a bit more, some experienced shooters consider freebore and bullet jump to be the same.  I.e. if the bullet is seated to touch the leade then there's no freebore by definition.

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« Last Edit: May 4th, 2015 at 2:52am by texasmac »  

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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Lead, lead, led & leade
Reply #4 - May 4th, 2015 at 6:31am
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It might be educational to see how the chamber reamer mfgs define these portions of the overall chamber.   I imagine that they have a pretty well established and uniform vocabulary. 
Perhaps using the same vocabulary they do might avoid complications when talking about chamber configuration. 
I imagine our practicing gun builders who routinely have to order chambering reamers makes sure to use the right words.
  

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Re: Lead, lead, led & leade
Reply #5 - May 4th, 2015 at 11:34am
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QuestionableMaynard8130 wrote on May 4th, 2015 at 6:31am:
It might be educational to see how the chamber reamer mfgs define these portions of the overall chamber.   I imagine that they have a pretty well established and uniform vocabulary. 
Perhaps using the same vocabulary they do might avoid complications when talking about chamber configuration. 
I imagine our practicing gun builders who routinely have to order chambering reamers makes sure to use the right words.


I order my reamers from PT&G and Hugh Hendrickson and thoughs are the terms that they use and that's where I learned them.

So, I can varify those two.

Frank
  

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Re: Lead, lead, led & leade
Reply #6 - May 5th, 2015 at 10:46am
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Texasmac wrote: Also, to complicate this a bit more, some experienced shooters consider freebore and bullet jump to be the same.  I.e. if the bullet is seated to touch the leade then there's no freebore by definition.

Freebore is a feature of the chamber profile.  Seating the bullet out far enough to span the freebore does not eliminate the freebore, just somewhat lessens the impact of the freebore on the alignment of the bullet with the bore.
  
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texasmac
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Re: Lead, lead, led & leade
Reply #7 - May 5th, 2015 at 12:38pm
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rr2241tx wrote on May 5th, 2015 at 10:46am:
Texasmac wrote: Also, to complicate this a bit more, some experienced shooters consider freebore and bullet jump to be the same.  I.e. if the bullet is seated to touch the leade then there's no freebore by definition.

Freebore is a feature of the chamber profile.  Seating the bullet out far enough to span the freebore does not eliminate the freebore, just somewhat lessens the impact of the freebore on the alignment of the bullet with the bore.


Tom, I’m in 100% agreement with you.  My comment stems from discussing freebore with several high-velocity smokeless shooters.  Seating the bullet to touch the lands essentially eliminates the main benefit of freebore when shooting high-velocity loads.  It's the reason Roy Weatherby is renowned for using freebore in his “magnum” chambered rifles, namely reducing the front, higher portion, of the pressure curve.  Of course, to utilize freebore for this purpose requires that the cartridge is loaded for maximum bullet jump.  If this is the bases of one’s understanding of freebore, than freebore or the benefits thereof are eliminated by seating the bullet out to touch the lands.

We BPCR shooters use freebore for other reasons.  Two that come to mind are allowing for more powder capacity and possibly aiding in bullet alignment.

Wayne
« Last Edit: May 5th, 2015 at 12:47pm by texasmac »  

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marlinguy
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Re: Lead, lead, led & leade
Reply #8 - May 5th, 2015 at 10:15pm
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JS47 wrote on May 3rd, 2015 at 11:57pm:


My spell checker says that we're both wrong about the spelling of leade and freebore. Huh


I wish my spell checker would stop trying to change "buttplate" to butt plate!
  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Lead, lead, led & leade
Reply #9 - May 6th, 2015 at 12:20am
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marlinguy wrote on May 5th, 2015 at 10:15pm:
JS47 wrote on May 3rd, 2015 at 11:57pm:


My spell checker says that we're both wrong about the spelling of leade and freebore. Huh


I wish my spell checker would stop trying to change "buttplate" to butt plate!


Right click on it  and add it to your dictionary. 
  

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Aonghas
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Re: Lead, lead, led & leade
Reply #10 - May 6th, 2015 at 10:23am
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texasmac wrote on May 3rd, 2015 at 11:50am:

/snip/

When writing about chambers and bores it helps me to remember to use the correct spelling if I think of leade as an abbreviation or contraction of the leading edge of the lands.

Wayne


And the distinction between 'lose' and 'loose'  could be better understood...

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Re: Lead, lead, led & leade
Reply #11 - May 6th, 2015 at 10:25am
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JS47 wrote on May 3rd, 2015 at 11:57pm:
It's my understanding that the "throat" is the combination of leade and freebore, if any.  Am I correct?

My spell checker says that we're both wrong about the spelling of leade and freebore. Huh


Speil chuckers are only useful if taken with a large pinch of salt.

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Aonghas
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Re: Lead, lead, led & leade
Reply #12 - May 6th, 2015 at 10:27am
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waterman wrote on May 4th, 2015 at 2:15am:
I wrote an article about one of my Low Walls that I called "The First Superbowl".  My spellchecker insisted it was "Superb Owl".


Auto(in)correct is permanently disabled here - even more disabled than it is when it's working as intended.

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rr2241tx
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Re: Lead, lead, led & leade
Reply #13 - May 6th, 2015 at 10:35am
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I don't know whether the freebore in our BPCR rifles actually is tight enough to aid in alignment or not.  It definitely helps with added powder capacity.
  
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Aonghas
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Re: Lead, lead, led & leade
Reply #14 - May 6th, 2015 at 10:36am
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texasmac wrote on May 4th, 2015 at 2:35am:
JS47 wrote on May 3rd, 2015 at 11:57pm:
It's my understanding that the "throat" is the combination of leade and freebore, if any.  Am I correct?

My spell checker says that we're both wrong about the spelling of leade and freebore. Huh


Stockerman,

This can get complicated.  There's a good bit of confusion on the definitions of leade, freebore and throat.  SAAMI says leade and throat are synonymous, which most likely originated when it was not common to find freebore in a rifle.  SAAMI also says the throat and leade are the same as "Ball Seat", a military term derived from cartridges with full metal jackets referred to as ball ammunition.


'Ball' can be any shape (within reason) and is not synonymous with 'spherical'. Think of Rugby balls or American Football pills...
Quote:

As noted earlier, leade is essentially the leading edge or sloped (ramped) portion of the rifling lands.  The angle of the ramp is called the leade angle.

Contrary to SAAMI's definition, I agree with the current definition used by many writers and firearm glossaries which defines the throat as the section that starts at the beginning of the chamber transition and ends when the lands are at full height.


I agree with you

Quote:
  Therefore, the throat includes the chamber transition step, freebore if it exists, the transition region from the freebore to leade (if the freebore diameter is larger than the groove diameter) and the leade.  

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, see the illustration below, which describes the Browning .40-65 and .45-90 throats with freebore diameters slightly larger than the groove diameters.  BTW, don't be surprised if some readers disagree with my definitions.


As if...

Quote:
Also, to complicate this a bit more, some experienced shooters consider freebore and bullet jump to be the same.  I.e. if the bullet is seated to touch the leade then there's no freebore by definition.


Now a spanner in the works - I used to have a double 12-bore rifle. This was basically a double 12 with rifled chokes - long leade?

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