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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Stevens 44 Lugged Hammer (Read 83184 times)
BP
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Re: Stevens 44 Lugged Hammer
Reply #45 - Dec 2nd, 2014 at 11:07pm
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These posts are bringing back memories...
A very good old smith now passed away remarked that when compared to Winchesters (original WRA), Stevens did a LOT of hand fitting of parts during assembly, so much so that he considered every Stevens rifle and every part in one to be basically a one-off. And he priced accordingly when working on Stevens.
I'm not trying to put a damper on things here, just wishing those who make the attempt a lot of patience determining the tolerance ranges, and also the best of success.      Smiley

  

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uscra112
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Re: Stevens 44 Lugged Hammer
Reply #46 - Dec 2nd, 2014 at 11:42pm
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Not taking umbrage, Dave.   According to an old magazine article included in Kimmel's book on Savage and Stevens, the standard hammers at least were blanked out on a punch-press.   Not that they couldn't have changed the profile over the years, but I'd reckon it unlikely.    Even in those days a good set of dies could have made 50,000 parts, with periodic resharpening.

That said, the lugged hammers would have had to have different dies, or were blanked out in some different process.  It would still have to fit within the same frame geometry, so would likely not be very different,  but we really need to lay hands on a lugged hammer to see.    

I'd always assumed that the profiles were made by form cutters, just as they were in the Krag trigger machining processes, of which I have some good contemporary info.  But not so at Stevens.
  

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LTC B
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Re: Stevens 44 Lugged Hammer
Reply #47 - Dec 3rd, 2014 at 7:12am
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I don't know what the original hammers were made of, but 8620 seems to be the appropriate steel for this, yes? Then case harden after fitting?

I'd buy one; maybe two. I planned on laser cutting some of these myself, but I still work full time, and just couldn't get to it. 

It seems if you leave the lug area "beefy" you should be fine. You could even let your imagination run wild on how to checker the hammer spur.

Just my 2 cents.
  
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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Stevens 44 Lugged Hammer
Reply #48 - Dec 3rd, 2014 at 10:40am
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I had intended to do a separate post asking that folks wanting lugged hammers to tell us how many. I had delayed that until we have clear path forward to production, which may take a while. Now that LTC B has stated his interest in buying two, it really seems more practical for interested folks to post here.

Thanks,
Grisen
  
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uscra112
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Re: Stevens 44 Lugged Hammer
Reply #49 - Dec 3rd, 2014 at 11:21am
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Kinda hard to ask people to say how many they'd want until we have some idea of cost.

Phil

  

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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Stevens 44 Lugged Hammer
Reply #50 - Dec 3rd, 2014 at 11:53am
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Phil,

Yes and maybe no. I am presuming that there is some number of folks that would like one or more, based on # of M44s they have/use. Some # of M44 owners seem already intent on installing one or more via their own capabilities. Is the potential market less than 10 or is it some multiple of 10? I have no idea presently. Does anyone?

I am sure price will affect extent of market. Those of us with a nice old M45, 47, 49, 51 that we use heavily are likely to have a different price point than someone with a rough standard M44. I suspect that those of us with higher grade M44s are more likely to benifit initially.

I would like to have some idea of market size. Dave probably does too.

Regards,
Grisen
  
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ssdave
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Re: Stevens 44 Lugged Hammer
Reply #51 - Dec 3rd, 2014 at 2:39pm
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It really doesn't matter to me, except in an abstract way for curiosity of how many people really think this a thing that they need to do.  Most of the work is in doing the comparisons and building the model right.  That's the same regardless of how many are made.  If I'm able to reconcile dimensions to make something that should work okay, then I'll get quotes and find out if there's a threshold production quantity that makes economic sense.   

I'm doing this for amusement purposes, so if the cost is affordable, it will get done regardless of pre-committments, etc.  I'll also be able to make the file available if anybody things my cost is unreasonable and wants to pursue it themselves.

The costs as I see them are:

Unknown setup and fixturing job cost.
ground stock steel sheet cost at nominal per hammer
Cutout of individual hammers at $3 to $15 per square inch of cut, depending on process.
Postage and packaging.

The individual hammers will only have a couple of square inches of cut in them, so most of the cost will be in the setup and fixturing.

This also assumes that the hammers will be sold as a simple profile, and will require shaping, polishing, checkering, etc.  And hardening if needed.  If I take on that type of work, the cost would go way up as there's a couple hours per hammer in shaping, polishing and checkering.

First step, I'll get some consistent dimensions checked and see if it should work.

dave
  
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LTC B
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Re: Stevens 44 Lugged Hammer
Reply #52 - Dec 3rd, 2014 at 3:02pm
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CPA charges $40 for hammers with stirrup. That's a price comparison.

These guys are both doing it to make a living, and at volume. I would think the two would cancel out somewhat.

I think most folks' price point is above $40, but below $100 each.

What a wonderful project!
  
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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Stevens 44 Lugged Hammer
Reply #53 - Dec 3rd, 2014 at 4:18pm
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Think I unnessarily implied that I was looking for "committment" to buy at this early stage when I was really interested in estimating number of self identified potential buyers.

Dave,
Thank you for your clear explanation of your position and intents.

Regards all,
Grisen
  
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ssdave
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Re: Stevens 44 Lugged Hammer
Reply #54 - Dec 4th, 2014 at 8:18pm
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Through unforeseen circumstances, I now have a lugged hammer action in my possession.  A rifle I bought today had one in it.  Be a few days before I have time to take it apart and see how it all fits together and compare to the standard hammer and block.

dave
  
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uscra112
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Re: Stevens 44 Lugged Hammer
Reply #55 - Dec 4th, 2014 at 8:53pm
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Serendipity !!!!!
  

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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Stevens 44 Lugged Hammer
Reply #56 - Dec 4th, 2014 at 8:56pm
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Thor smiled on us!!
  
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Chev. William
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Re: Stevens 44 Lugged Hammer
Reply #57 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 4:09pm
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Adding to this list:  I am 'Interested' in obtaining at least two "Lugged" hammers for Stevens Model 44 Actions I presently own.
I would also be interested in a version suitable for 1894 and 1915 Favorite Actions.  I know that it would be smaller than the '44' one so perhaps scaling of the File that cuts the '44' Blank would be possible?

Best Regards,
Chev. William
  
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Brian
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Re: Stevens 44 Lugged Hammer
Reply #58 - Dec 12th, 2014 at 12:23am
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I was able to mill a slot in my hammer and insert (press fit) a piece of key stock (machined) then pinned in place and fit up to breech block. It seems to work very well. I didn't see the need for a hardened lug as the block and hammer are not any harder. Will try to attach photo's

   Brian
« Last Edit: Dec 13th, 2014 at 12:09am by Brian »  
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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Stevens 44 Lugged Hammer
Reply #59 - Dec 12th, 2014 at 9:58am
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Thanks Brian!!

That looks like a valid method for modifying an existing hammer that is already fitted to a specific rifle.

Some quetions:
1) have you shot your rifle with this modification enough to know if the breechblock is actually exerting any force on the lug?
2) What would you estimate as time needed to make this modification, as well as tools needed.
3) Now that you have made this modification, could you provide Dave with information re dimensions of yours for comparison with his original lugged hammer?

Looking forward to understanding pros and cons of this method, as well as performance.

Thanks again,
Grisen
  
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