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1/20 vs ww (Read 11663 times)

Elijah Ex Member	Re: 1/20 vs ww Reply #15 - Aug 15^th, 2013 at 10:57am	Print Post
	I have to admit using ww's in pistols have given me some of the best groups I've ever had...rifle or pistol. This group was from ww's plus 2%tin. A custom Accurate Arms mold for the 44 Magnum using 10 gr of HS-6 and a 260 gr FNRP bullet. That's twelve shots from a Model 29. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) This one from a S&W 1911. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) For me, it doesn't get any better. However, with BPCR's I have good luck with a softer allow such as 1:20 and that's probably what I'll continue to use although experimentation is in order. There was no leading with either of those above.


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John Boy Ex Member	Re: 1/20 vs ww Reply #16 - Aug 15^th, 2013 at 8:30pm	Print Post
	In about 2002, I started scrounging clip on wheel weights and amssed an inventory over 1500 lbs. Every bucket was a separate batch and all ingots were marked. Aged over 6 months the batches were either Bhn 13.5 or 15.4. No in betweens or lower than 13.5 Related to how well WW reloads group ... this target had 14 bullets create the ragged hole out of 25 rounds @ 100yds Loading data is on the target ... (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: 1/20 vs ww Reply #17 - Aug 16^th, 2013 at 8:14am	Print Post
	This would be impressive if shot at 200 yards. There is a vast difference between shooting pistol rounds at under 1000FPS and shooting a rifle at 1450FPS to 1800 FPS. I stand by my statment when Antimony is added to the alloy nothing good happens after that in a rifle. 40 Rod


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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: 1/20 vs ww Reply #18 - Aug 16^th, 2013 at 10:03am	Print Post
	Quote: This would be impressive if shot at 200 yards. There is a vast difference between shooting pistol rounds at under 1000FPS and shooting a rifle at 1450FPS to 1800 FPS. I agree with that, which is why I use certified lead/tin for 25-ring shooting, but also recycle range lead/tin for other types of shooting where 200 yard guilt-edge accuracy is not applicable or obtainable in those firearms not meant for Schuetzen shooting. And I recall mention by a scribe that Charlie Dell cast his bullets from wheel-weights. Hmm...

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7542 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: 1/20 vs ww Reply #19 - Aug 16^th, 2013 at 11:46am	Print Post
	Have a friend who shoots Aydt Schutezens, cast all his bullets from Wheel Weights, supplied by the BMW Dealer. German, they must be better than anything else. I will stick to Roto Metals for my target rifle lead. Boats


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singleshot Senior Forum Member Online I love singleshots! Posts: 331 Location: Fort Mill, SC Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: 1/20 vs ww Reply #20 - Aug 16^th, 2013 at 1:23pm	Print Post
	Charlie MAY have used WW early on, but after he found that lead/tin/antimony would not maintain a hardness after heat treating and annealing he went to pure lead/tin. This was at least his last 15 years of shooting.

	Willis Gregory, aka singleshot
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: 1/20 vs ww Reply #21 - Aug 16^th, 2013 at 1:49pm	Print Post
	Thank you for making that known Singleshot and I would recommend that those who do not have a copy of Charlie's book get one. For those not in the know Singleshots knowledge on the subject is first hand and it is also mentioned in the book. JLouis.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7261 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: 1/20 vs ww Reply #22 - Aug 19^th, 2013 at 1:11am	Print Post
	You guy's are going to have to get a hold of the Heavy and Unrestricted shooters in CBA and let them know about this Frank

	ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: 1/20 vs ww Reply #23 - Aug 19^th, 2013 at 12:10pm	Print Post
	Frank different horse to ride compared to our game. They use Linotype and has checks and push their bullets hard. I have tried going down their road minus the gas checks and it just did not work for me. Most I know who tried the same couldn't even seat a bullet.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7261 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: 1/20 vs ww Reply #24 - Aug 19^th, 2013 at 12:49pm	Print Post
	Morning John, It's really not a different horse, the color may be different but not the genentics of the horse. What we are talking about is casting quality bullets and obtaining excellent accuracy w/o leading or very minimal leading. The one variable the lead/tin doesn't have is age hardening but, that's a small step to deal with. As I remember lead/tin alloys age soften, slightly. The difference is that we don't understand how to raise the velocity reliably to ~2000 fps. IMO because that not enough skilled people have worked at it. It's not something to be shuned, but rather, something to be understood as there can be a advantage to to be obtained. I wouldn't recommend it to a starting shooter but, it could be successfully over come with enough experianced shooters with a open minds and a desire to exceed. Frank

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: 1/20 vs ww Reply #25 - Aug 19^th, 2013 at 3:22pm	Print Post
	Frank I have already been down that road, spent a little over a year of serious testing and no emprovements were found or believe me I wouldn't currently being using lead and tin alloys. Now keep in mind that was just my experiance others might vary. It would be interesting if someone else would take that bull by the horns and share his or her results. Is that something that you might consider taking on. Pushing lead and tin plainbase bullets over 2000fps without leading is not an issue, achieving match winning / extreme accuracy is.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7261 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: 1/20 vs ww Reply #26 - Aug 19^th, 2013 at 3:53pm	Print Post
	John, I have done one experiment along these lines but, not with a antimony alloy. My plan was to go as high as possible with lead/tin alloy and then add antimony. My days of continuos experimenting are gone. I will be 69 in three months and have low Thyroid levels but, between '85 and '97, that's all I did was experiment and shoot matches. I'm just not that active any more. I also still have many unfinished projects to do right now. Later today, I'll start a new thread with my one test, regarding HV PB loadings that I did a few months ago and see where it goes. Frank

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