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Finding an accurate load. (Read 7243 times)

DWT1885 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 396 Location: New Jersey Joined: Nov 25^th, 2010	Finding an accurate load. Dec 22^nd, 2011 at 6:29pm	Print Post
	Finding an accurate load for your rifle seems to be never ending with all the powder, lube, bullet and primer combinations that you could try. I know to change only one thing at a time but my question is this : How many groups do you need to shoot before you know that a certain load has potential or not?

	35th Security Police Squadron, Phan Rang AB, RVN, May 70-71. All gave some, some gave all.
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Finding an accurate load. Reply #1 - Dec 22^nd, 2011 at 7:02pm	Print Post
	I tend to work with 10ea. 10 shot 200yd targets prior to deciding if a load is showing real promise or not. I do not shoot for group while developing a load I shoot for score and typically use the ASSRA targets to develop loads with. If a load cannot maintain 247's thru 250's consistently day in and day out on both good days and bad it is time to start changing things to improve it. J.Louis
	« Last Edit: Dec 22^nd, 2011 at 7:30pm by JLouis »
	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7283 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Finding an accurate load. Reply #2 - Dec 22^nd, 2011 at 7:22pm	Print Post
	That's kind of hard to answer. I guess it would depend on what you think is potential accuracy. For me the answer would be one good group could show potential if it was with in 25% of where I wanted to be. It would be where I would start to develop a reliable load that has the possibility to become better by swapping primers, bullets, lube and moving the powder charge around. As to how many groups that I would shoot, I have no number but my answer would be two days worth of testing, if it didn't come in to my expectations, I'd go on to something else.

	ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4053 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Finding an accurate load. Reply #3 - Dec 22^nd, 2011 at 8:44pm	Print Post
	The smallest 30 shot group size shot under windy conditions is how I differentiate between loads. A good load is one that will stay in the 24 ring. Here is 25 shots (.32 RKS) at 100 yards with iron sights (Anschutz) that is under 1 MOA. I shot this one by calling the wind. Normally to test a new load I ignore the wind, and the load that provides the tightest group under windy conditions is ussually the best. Chronographs have never helped me in finding the sweet spot or most precise load. This was shot under difficult wind conditions. The front flag was always blowing to the left; the middle flag was blowing to the right and the farthest flag was blowing in my face. Fired when all three flags dropped.
	« Last Edit: Dec 22^nd, 2011 at 9:00pm by Schuetzendave »

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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: Finding an accurate load. Reply #4 - Dec 23^rd, 2011 at 8:02am	Print Post
	100 Yards is a place to start. Using your starting load start shooting 10 shot groups. Look for vertical dispersion. When you can reliably shoot .100" of vertical dispersion it is time to move out to 200 yds. 200 yards is where the real work gets done. Generally you are going to have to increase the powder charge slightly from your best 200 yard groups. When you can keep your vertical dispersion down to less than an inch you are closing in. This is a load that will have to be tested over a range of temperatures. Some powder / lube combinations will require you to increase / decrease the charge due to weather changes. Keep good records this is the only way you know. Measure all the targets that you shoot seriously not just the smallest. Way too many shooters will pull out the "wall hanger" they shot once and can never recreate again. 40 Rod


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Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3878 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Finding an accurate load. Reply #5 - Dec 23^rd, 2011 at 8:24am	Print Post
	40_Rod wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2011 at 8:02am: 100 Yards is a place to start. Using your starting load start shooting 10 shot groups. Look for vertical dispersion. When you can reliably shoot .100" of vertical dispersion it is time to move out to 200 yds. 200 yards is where the real work gets done. Generally you are going to have to increase the powder charge slightly from your best 200 yard groups. When you can keep your vertical dispersion down to less than an inch you are closing in. This is a load that will have to be tested over a range of temperatures. Some powder / lube combinations will require you to increase / decrease the charge due to weather changes. Keep good records this is the only way you know. Measure all the targets that you shoot seriously not just the smallest. Way too many shooters will pull out the "wall hanger" they shot once and can never recreate again. 40 Rod What data do you document? Spreadsheet?

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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DWT1885 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 396 Location: New Jersey Joined: Nov 25^th, 2010	Re: Finding an accurate load. Reply #6 - Dec 23^rd, 2011 at 3:05pm	Print Post
	Thanks to all who replied to my question. I did pick up some good pointers. Dale.

	35th Security Police Squadron, Phan Rang AB, RVN, May 70-71. All gave some, some gave all.
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Rich_Siegel Full Member Offline Posts: 177 Location: Maine Joined: Feb 6^th, 2006	Re: Finding an accurate load. Reply #7 - Dec 24^th, 2011 at 8:21am	Print Post
	Dale, I had a very experienced modern bench rest shooter tell me start with 3 or 4 shot groups. Right there, you can tell if the load is going to show promise. Forget the bad groups and concentrate on the groups that show a good group. Then go on to more shots to confirm the best loads. Rich


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DWT1885 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 396 Location: New Jersey Joined: Nov 25^th, 2010	Re: Finding an accurate load. Reply #8 - Dec 24^th, 2011 at 10:45am	Print Post
	Thanks Rich. Appreciate the advice. Dale

	35th Security Police Squadron, Phan Rang AB, RVN, May 70-71. All gave some, some gave all.
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John Boy Ex Member	Re: Finding an accurate load. Reply #9 - Dec 24^th, 2011 at 11:19am	Print Post
	Quote: What data do you document? Spreadsheet? Cat, a load development reference sheet plus the target ... (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


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screwloosetc Ex Member	Re: Finding an accurate load. Reply #10 - Dec 24^th, 2011 at 11:50am	Print Post
	BEWARE When I opened this link my pc locked up and I had a lot of trouble


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Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3878 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Finding an accurate load. Reply #11 - Dec 24^th, 2011 at 11:37pm	Print Post
	John Boy - THANKS! (It opened OK with my confuser). I like the illustration making crystal clear the terms. I don't have a way of predicting velocity or sight settings, hence not thought of doing it - you've expanded my thinking - thanks.

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3878 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Finding an accurate load. Reply #12 - Dec 24^th, 2011 at 11:42pm	Print Post
	Quote: BEWARE When I opened this link my pc locked up and I had a lot of trouble It is a pdf file. You might want to make sure you have the latest Adobe reader (it's free).

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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joeb33050 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2613 Location: Marathon, FL Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: Finding an accurate load. Reply #13 - Dec 25^th, 2011 at 2:23pm	Print Post
	DWT1885 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2011 at 6:29pm: Finding an accurate load for your rifle seems to be never ending with all the powder, lube, bullet and primer combinations that you could try. I know to change only one thing at a time but my question is this : How many groups do you need to shoot before you know that a certain load has potential or not? The answer is here: (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) The answer is, it takes a lot of groups to detect differences in loads. More groups than most are willing to shoot. Think about this. In a set of 5 five shot groups, the largest group will be, on average, twice as large as the smallest group. Shooters make decisions and statements about loads that are on rediculously small numbers of shots fired. About powders and primers and alloys and so on. Nonsense is the rule. joe b.


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