Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ringing the chamber? (Read 19835 times)
Sendaro
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


When the sight is on SEND
IT!

Posts: 588
Location: Saratoga Springs NY
Joined: Nov 21st, 2010
Ringing the chamber?
Dec 23rd, 2011 at 2:17pm
Print Post  
I've been told that using a light powder charge of smokeless powder in a old high volume black powder cartridge case can cause harm to the rifles chamber. The person that was trying to tell me about this was giving me the information 3rd hand. I'd like to know more about this RINGING A CHAMBER so that I may avoid any potential problem that could happen to my rifle. It is a Stevens 44 in 32-40. Being a 44 and not a 44 1/2 I only shoot cast bullets with a light powder charge of IMR4227 (12.5 grains) and 150 to 170 grain cast bullets. Sometimes I shoot fixed ammo and sometimes I shoot breach seated SAECO 632 bullets. Would like to hear from those in the KNOW about this to avoid any harm to my fine old Stevens 44. 

        Thanks, Sendaro
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7552
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Ringing the chamber?
Reply #1 - Dec 23rd, 2011 at 2:42pm
Print Post  
Only guy I knew that "knew" about chamber ringing was Charlie Dell.  He did a lot of experimenting with his rail gun and could ring a chamber on demand I am told. Almost everything else is 2nd or 3rd hand information.

Most of us shoot 4227 or something of similar burn rate in moderate charges breech seated or fixed no wads or fillers and don't ring chambers.  It's sort of like driving your car, take precautions and don't think too much about what could happen. Too much thought you would never get behind the wheel.

You loads sound  reasonable shoot that Stevens and enjoy it.

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7283
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: Ringing the chamber?
Reply #2 - Dec 23rd, 2011 at 3:46pm
Print Post  
I've only ever rung one chamber (one to many) and it was with a wad holding the powder back against the primer. I got away with it for a few months and then for no (seemed like) reason, I couldn't get the case out and had to use my cleaning rod. Next shot, samething Sad

So, I've never used a wad since. One time is WAY to many. The short case guys seem to be getting away with it just fine. But, I won't do it again.

Frank
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
Sendaro
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


When the sight is on SEND
IT!

Posts: 588
Location: Saratoga Springs NY
Joined: Nov 21st, 2010
Re: Ringing the chamber?
Reply #3 - Dec 23rd, 2011 at 3:46pm
Print Post  
Boats, I just love this old Stevens 44. I know that it's not the strongest or the most accurate rifle but it has found a warm place in my affection for old rifles. I've been a reloader, shooter, hunter for the past 47 years. It's only in the last few years that I have tried working with the older single shot rifles and cast bullets. Up till then it was deer rifles to bench-rest rifles in center fire chambers. The only cast bullet shooting I did was with handguns. Getting my center fire rifles to shoot under 1/2 MOA is not a big challenge anymore, so I was looking for something a little different. Up popped the idea to play with single shot rifles from the past and cast bullets. I've a bunch to learn about them yet and that is half the fun of it. Thanks for the reply, Sendaro
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
westerner
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


deleted posts and threads
record holder.

Posts: 11474
Location: Why, out West of course
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: Ringing the chamber?
Reply #4 - Dec 23rd, 2011 at 4:26pm
Print Post  
A ring in a chamber can be repaired.  Two of my best shooting traditional rifles had ringed chambers when I got them.  Neck reamed one and lapped the other. 

Ring one over and over and keep reaming and pert soon you're using RMC everlasting shells.  Hey! This is working out perty good!  Roll Eyes

Your 12.5 gr 4227 without a wad will never ring the chamber.   

          Joe.  Smiley  Merry Christmas!
  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16159
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Ringing the chamber?
Reply #5 - Dec 23rd, 2011 at 4:52pm
Print Post  
Charlie's book goes into a lot of detail on chamber ringing, and it seems like most cases it's due to people using powders that needed fillers or wads. Using reduced loads alone didn't seem to do it.
I like powders that are not position sensitive, so wads are not needed. I've shot a lot of reduced plinker loads with no problems ringing chambers. Even long before I knew it could be done! Wink
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
40_Rod
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Extremism in the persuit
of accuracy is not a
vice

Posts: 4285
Location: Knoxville, TN
Joined: Apr 20th, 2004
Re: Ringing the chamber?
Reply #6 - Dec 24th, 2011 at 8:02am
Print Post  
Val is right
Buy Charlies book it is the best investment that you will make. There is a lot more than just chamber ringing in there. 
There are two ways to go at this with a 32-40. First don't use a wad. This works well if you have a rifle that you don't have to tip the shell to get the shell into the chamber. The 44 action should be a perfect candidate for that. 
The second is to use a wad. You can use cork or many people use floral foam. I use cork it can be bought in a roll  at the office supply store. Than just punch them out. either way seat the wad in the neck or just a little way down the shell. The idea is to keep the powder from falling into your action. 
Never put the wad down tight to the powder! The idea is that the powder charge needs to slump inside the shell. This helps to keep the pressure wave from being the kind that can ring a chamber.
I fully expect to see a bunch of posts telling you that I am full of meadow muffins and that they have been seating wads tight forever and never ringed a chamber. To that I say; yet. Buy the book and read it you won't regret the purchase.

40 Rod
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sendaro
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


When the sight is on SEND
IT!

Posts: 588
Location: Saratoga Springs NY
Joined: Nov 21st, 2010
Re: Ringing the chamber?
Reply #7 - Dec 24th, 2011 at 8:25am
Print Post  
Many thanks for the helpful information. Looks like I've been loading my 32-40 the right way. I don't use a wad on top of the powder. I have used a dental carding wax wad at the mouth of the case when pre-charging for the shooting session with breach seated bullets. 
   I have not tried shoot my 32-40 with black powder as of yet and want to give that a try. A friend of mine had some cartridge black powder and I do plan to try it sometime soon. Any suggestion around using the black powder will be helpful. 
        Thanks to all, Sendaro
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
nuclearcricket
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 753
Joined: Oct 15th, 2008
Re: Ringing the chamber?
Reply #8 - Dec 24th, 2011 at 10:37am
Print Post  
Not real familiar with BP and breach seated bullets, but I can tell you this. You will need to have a BP friendly bullet lube such as SPG or other brand designed for Black Powder. Use a drop tube to fill your case with powder and compress it slightly and place your card wad on top. The different brands of BP seem to like different amounts of compression. Swiss and KIK seem to do best with just slight compression and Goex seem to like more. 
All of my  experience with loading BP is with fixed ammo for BPCR Silly-wet shooting.
I am sure that there are folks on here that shoot BP and breach seated bullets and will offer more help.
Sam
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7552
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Ringing the chamber?
Reply #9 - Dec 24th, 2011 at 3:18pm
Print Post  
You can get your 32/40 case in that 44 action without wads and no spilling. It's the best way to go eliminate the wad altogether. All you have to do is be careful. 

Wad at the mouth will eliminate chance of spilling while it opens up all sorts of possible issues if not seated properly or moves while you are transporting cases.

Far as black powder. 32/40 can be loaded successfully with black but it's on the bottom edge of practical.  I have 32 & 38  barrels for my CPA 44 1/2, load black in the 38/55 never in the 32/40 barrel. 

Smaller bores are a troublesome with black due fowling. Can be done nothing wrong with trying something hard, just most feel the 38's and larger get better results.

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sendaro
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


When the sight is on SEND
IT!

Posts: 588
Location: Saratoga Springs NY
Joined: Nov 21st, 2010
Re: Ringing the chamber?
Reply #10 - Dec 24th, 2011 at 5:18pm
Print Post  
Guys, Had a feeling that BP in the 32-40 would cause and issue with the bore being fouled quickly. I remember reading about wiping the bore between shots and how that helped with accuracy. So far I've only worked with IMR4227. I have an old gold DUPONT can of SR-4759, but have not tried it. Even if I get it to working well where would I get more of it?????
   Think that I'll stick with the IMR4227 for a while longer.
   
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Kurt_701
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1016
Location: Missouri
Joined: May 20th, 2004
Re: Ringing the chamber?
Reply #11 - Dec 24th, 2011 at 9:01pm
Print Post  
IMR is owned by Hodgdon.  They still market SR-4759.    (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Kurt
  

M-14 3rd Battalion 27th Marines RVN 68'69'
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
westerner
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


deleted posts and threads
record holder.

Posts: 11474
Location: Why, out West of course
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: Ringing the chamber?
Reply #12 - Dec 24th, 2011 at 10:42pm
Print Post  
Sendaro wrote on Dec 24th, 2011 at 5:18pm:
Guys, Had a feeling that BP in the 32-40 would cause and issue with the bore being fouled quickly. I remember reading about wiping the bore between shots and how that helped with accuracy. So far I've only worked with IMR4227. I have an old gold DUPONT can of SR-4759, but have not tried it. Even if I get it to working well where would I get more of it?????
   Think that I'll stick with the IMR4227 for a while longer.
   


My 32/40s shoot BP every bit as accurate as the bigger bores. Took a lot of fiddeling to get my load down.  I use 38-40 gr FFF or Swiss 1 1/2.  No compression. A .060 Walters VF wad on the powder.  I dont size my cases. I use several different bullets. Most are tapered Pope style.  So far the Hudson 319-289 gives me the most consistent accuracy.  I have not separated a case in a very long time. Well over a thousand rounds.   
I started out with fifty new WW cases. When a case separated it was replaced with a new case. After about five reloads the cases stopped separating. Also am finding the nickel plated cases much better for BP loads. They dont turn black and icky like the brass cases.  I dont tumble my cases. Shiny cases dont shoot any more accurate than black cases.  When I get home from shooting I deprime the cases then boil in water and dish soap.  Five minutes is sufficient. Dump them in the sink and rinse with cold water.  I clean the insides with a bronze bore brush and rinse under the tap. This summer in OH practice, (of course), shot a 225-2c 229-2c 224-2c 220 and seldom shot under 200 with this load in my lowall 32/40. 1970's manufacture Douglas 16 twist barrel. From the bench it will shoot 2-3 inch groups with globe and vernier sights. I simply went back to the basics, the older shooters told me when I first started. 
Almost forgot. I use a blow tube. Two long slow breaths. In hot weather I give it three.

      Merry Christmas!

              Joe.  Smiley
  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 10625
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Ringing the chamber?
Reply #13 - Dec 24th, 2011 at 11:07pm
Print Post  
Sendaro don't get stuck on using one powder it might not take you where you would like to go in the accuracy dept. I have very little experience with 4759 and will not comment on its use but 4227 has been the most inconsistent powder I have tried to date and I am talking about doing  extensive testing and not just shooting a target or two. The rifle has shot some remarkable targets during the tests including a couple of 250's but for every good target, I had six or more bad ones before I could find another good one. My testing consisted of both rifle and pistol primers from each manufacturer, both standard and magnum, seating depth variances and alloy hardness's from 1-25 up 1-10 and I could not find a combination that would provide the  consistency required to be competitive day in and day out. It is also very powder oriented sensitive. When the tests were completed I gave the remaining 4lbs to a friend who had a different use for it and moved on to something with more day in and day out consistency. I know that I am going to get allot of flack for posting this by those who swear by it and use nothing else and have for years but if they would walk away from it and try the other powders that are much more consistent they would then tend to agree. Look at the equipment lists being used in the regional and national competitions by those at the top of the list and you would be lucky to find one using either H or IMR 4227. I have nothing to gain or loose by my statements and I am not promoting the use of a single powder I just don't want to see you or anyone else get to a point where you can't improve beyond where you are at and the powder choice plays a big part in it. The ones I have found to provide the best day in and day out consistency are the ball powders and I have tested AA-9, H-108, AA-4100, WW296 and my personnel favorite is Alliant 300MP so there is allot to pick from in the quest to find the one your rifle truly likes the best.
  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7552
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Ringing the chamber?
Reply #14 - Dec 25th, 2011 at 6:59am
Print Post  
On my Black powder comment. 

No reason Black won't shoot as well if not better than smokless in any case. Except the powder fowling causes trouble.  When I shoot black in my 38/55 it's with a clean bore shot to shot. Wipe with a damp patch then dry with a 2nd patch between shots.  I suppose if you did the same thing with the 32/40 good results would follow. 

Blow tubes are a good solution when relay times are short and you don't have time for wiping with a rod.  Lot of guys have good success with them. Like anything else consistent blow tube routine is best.

If you are going to shoot multiple shots without wiping larger the bore better the results. I can shoot my .58 caliber Minne ball M/L rifle multiple shots with no wiping. In practice on the target range always wipe it with a damp patch between shots. No reason not to, plenty of time and want the get the best result on target.

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Send TopicPrint