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ssdave
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Re: Rem Rolling Block Rifles
Reply #15 - Jan 2nd, 2012 at 10:00pm
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Kenn,

Interesting info you have posted.  A couple of questions?   

Did the #1 1/2's you've seen have a narrow lower tang shaped like a #1 sporter?  And a related question, have you seen what you have considered a #1 with flat sides, not rebated at the receiver ring, but octagon top? 
 
I have owned rifles that I considered #1 1/2's that were linear extractor, flat side, and I think had long sporter lower tangs.  What I remember for sure about the tang is that it had a through bolt, not two, so couldn't be used with a set trigger.  That agrees with what you posted.

A few years ago, I bought #1 1/2's occasionally.   They were much cheaper to buy than #1's, you could get them for less than the sporter parts were worth and use them for conversions of military rifles.  I have owned at least two rifles that I considered #1 1/2's that had linear extractors, flat sides and octagon top.  I thought at the time that they had the same length lower tang as a #1, but that might be faulty memory.  I know the breech block would interchange with a #1, because I tried that.  Both were .32 rimfire.  I eventually got leery of the thin sides and sold one of them.  I can't remember what happened to the other action shell, but I think I used the parts to make a sporter rifle out of a forager military shotgun.  I switched the lower tang and stock onto the shotgun action, and made a rifle out of it that looked like an original sporter, except the receiver top contour step was slightly different becasue the walls don't come up as high and I machined to that.  What I distinctly remember was that they had linear extractors and through bolt on the tang, as the parts interchanged with the shotgun.

A lot of things have happened to these over the years, by the owners.  I remember selling you an action shell once that someone had thinned to #1 1/2 dimensions from a military.  Someone gets hold of that in the future, and a new model is discovered!

dave
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Rem Rolling Block Rifles
Reply #16 - Jan 3rd, 2012 at 1:14am
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My 1 1/2 has the rear trigger guard cross screw and a rotary extractor. It also has a fly on the hammer but, I don't think the hammer original. Also, the Pat. dates are under the octagon on the left side with a 1873 as the last date.

Frank
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Rem Rolling Block Rifles
Reply #17 - Jan 3rd, 2012 at 7:47pm
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I've seen two very early #1 Sporters that wre not octagon top, but had all the normal sporting rifle features, and were unmessed with guns. Prior to seeing these two I had always assumed all #1 Sporters to be octagon top with rebated stepped receivers.
  

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ssdave
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Re: Rem Rolling Block Rifles
Reply #18 - Jan 3rd, 2012 at 10:37pm
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Val,

Grant shows a few of those also, so you're not alone in seeing them.   

Frank,

You've brought up a piece of info that I think also always defines a sporter.  I have never seen a sporting rifle of #1, #1 1/2, or #2 that didn't have that "pigpen brand" stamp on the left side.

For those of you who aren't from out west, a pigpen brand was a large, overly complex brand that could be used by thieves to cover another persons brand to make it hard to identify stolen cattle.   Branding commissions have eliminated that from usage, but the saying lives on.....

Reminds me of the far side cartoon where the rancher is heating up his branding iron and the cows are looking on with wide eyed fear.  That branding iron is half as big as the cow and says "this here cow belongs to bob".

dave
  
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Re: Rem Rolling Block Rifles
Reply #19 - Jan 21st, 2012 at 9:19pm
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Let me first start by saying that I am no Remington rolling block expert.  I have two, love them, but that sure doesn't make me an expert, lol.  With that said, this is out of the book "The Rifle in America" by Philip Sharpe.  "Remington No. 1 1/2 sporting rifle was introduced in 1871.  Essentially, this was a motified version of the No. 1 and had but a short life on the market.  It was made in a number of calibers including the .22 short and Long rimfire, .25/10 Stevens rimfire, .25/20 Stevens singleshot, .32 short and long rimfire, .32 extra long rimfire, .32 long centerfire, .32/20 WCF, .38 long rimfire, .38/40 Win. rimfire and .44/40 Win. Centerfire.
It also had an octagon barrel with an oiled-walnut stock, case-hardened frame and butt plate, and the trypical sporting front and rear sights.  Extra sights of any of the standard makes were available through Remington and could be fitted to this model at the factory.  Barrels were  24, 26, 28 and 30 inches long and weights ran from 7 pds in the .22 to about 7 1/2 pds, regardless of caliber."  Not sure I added anything to the fire here, but thought it interesting.
  
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.22Hepburn
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Re: Rem Rolling Block Rifles
Reply #20 - Feb 10th, 2012 at 9:47pm
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ss dave, all #1 1/2s have rotary extractors, receivers are octagoned but unlike #1 sporters there is no mortise at the edge where the sides angle up to the top, and the narrower width of the receiver is what really sets them apart from the #1s, and single set triggers were a factory option on #1 1/2s. Additionally, the Light Baby Carbines have the same size receiver as the #1 1/2 sporting rifles.
  
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.22Hepburn
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Re: Rem Rolling Block Rifles
Reply #21 - Feb 11th, 2012 at 4:11pm
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I had a senior moment, I used the word "mortised" and I meant to say rebated. Sorry for the mistake. Interesting that I re-checked the Marcot Rolling Block book and he mentions that there is a small number of #1 Sporting Rifles without the rebate on the octagon topped receivers. That might cause some confusion in identifying some rifles.
  
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ssdave
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Re: Rem Rolling Block Rifles
Reply #22 - Feb 11th, 2012 at 4:17pm
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40-82,

What you describe, a #1 without the rebate but octagon top, matches what I recall.  I sent one of them to a fellow in the Netherlands that I occasionally correspond with, so If I think about it, I'll ask him about the extractor.  It was in a rimfire caliber, as were most of the early rifles.  I considered it to be a #1 1/2 because of no rebate, but the block was linear extractor, because I could interchange it with a #1 block, which I considered doing.

dave
  
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Re: Rem Rolling Block Rifles
Reply #23 - Feb 12th, 2012 at 3:26pm
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The width of the receiver would tell you if it was a 1 or 1 1/2, the 1 1/2 being narrower (the exact measurements are mentioned in an earlier posting in this thread).
  
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