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Doug_Nelson
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The last Pope (muzzleloader)
Oct 5th, 2011 at 8:49pm
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Lucian Cary's Pope breech-muzzleloader, purported to be the last such, sold at auction today for $14K. ($16K with auctioneer's premium).  I wanted it, but it was too high for me.  It is a really nice gun-- about the only negative is that Cary had it (very nicely) restocked.  The tools were all very nice, and there was one accessory I've never seen before-- a brass case for the starter/false muzzle assembly.  I'll try to attach a photo.  Both halves of this brass tube had an L-slot that slipped over the sight-pin of the false muzzle, locking the whole shebang together.  Was this a one-off, or did Pope make more of these?

Anyone wishing to read the description and see more pictures can visit the James D Julia website.  It was item 2046A: (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Doug Nelson
  
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JLouis
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Re: The last Pope (muzzleloader)
Reply #1 - Oct 5th, 2011 at 9:13pm
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Doug I went to the web site and was not able to locate it. 

If memory serves me right a few years back actually quite a few years back you picked up Schoyen's ( please forgive my spelling as I don't think it is correct ) personnel rifle at I believe one of the Rock Island Auctions for a very reasonable price so now is a good time as any for me to ask you how does it shoot as I have not been in touch with you since the good ole days when we used to get on the chat line just about nightly.

J.Louis
  

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Doug_Nelson
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Re: The last Pope (muzzleloader)
Reply #2 - Oct 5th, 2011 at 10:45pm
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J.Louis,
Try this link (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) , and then look down the page for 2046A.  If you click on the thumbnail, it will bring up a number of good photographs.

I haven't done a lot of shooting with that Schoyen, though I did shoot it with duplex loads in a couple of matches.  I didn't do particularly well with it, but that's because of my shooting rather than the gun!
Doug
  
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40_Rod
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Re: The last Pope (muzzleloader)
Reply #3 - Oct 6th, 2011 at 8:58am
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A friend of mine bought the rifle. When he asked me for advice I told him that I thought that Julia had undervalued the rifle. In my estimation that should have no effect on the value of the rifle. Pope did metal work not stock work. Once the barrel was properly made and mounted to an action that Pope had worked over the stock, as long as it was properly fit, meant nothing to Pope. Being as the gun is there with all its original equipment that Pope made for the it, and given the historical significance of the owner and its place as the last full rifle Pope ever did, I think the stock issue is moot. After all Carey had it restocked from the original Winchester stock to suit himself and if a man can't restock his own rifle so he shoots better with it who can? 
The value in a Pope is how it shoots not how it looks. In Carey's own words "Let the gun talk.

40 Rod
  
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ron
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Re: The last Pope (muzzleloader)
Reply #4 - Oct 6th, 2011 at 10:27am
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I was at work when they were shooting photos for the catalog and I had a chance to handle the rifle and all of the items that came with the gun. What a great feeling to handle such a nice piece of shooting history.

Ron  Smiley

  
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Doug_Nelson
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Re: The last Pope (muzzleloader)
Reply #5 - Oct 6th, 2011 at 1:05pm
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40_Rod,
I'll not argue with you, or at least not much!  I was the 13K bid, and had in fact set 14K as my absolute high price, so I liked the gun a lot!  Of course, Cary had the right to restock his gun, but judging from the letters, he never saw it again after sending it off to Darrow for the new stock.  While Darrow had it, Cary decided to sell it, and Darrow handled it from there.  At least, that's the way I read it.  So my thinking is, "you !@#$ed old coot, if you were ready to sell it, why mess with it?!"
Doug
  
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ron
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Re: The last Pope (muzzleloader)
Reply #6 - Oct 6th, 2011 at 5:23pm
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I agree with the Old Coot part. But it was fun to handle the work of a master.

Ron
  
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Re: The last Pope (muzzleloader)
Reply #7 - Oct 6th, 2011 at 8:30pm
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40_Rod he did buy it as a Christmas gift to you right?

What a gorgeous Rifle and if one would spend some time with it I could only imagine how well one could get it to shoot.

J.Louis
  

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40_Rod
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Re: The last Pope (muzzleloader)
Reply #8 - Oct 7th, 2011 at 8:50am
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I wish John! I just do what I can to help him get started with the rifle. We are trying to track down the components for Pope Lube. Does anyone know where a small amount of colloidal graphite can be obtained? The rest of the ingredients are fairly easy to find. I would like to get him started out right.

40 Rod
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: The last Pope (muzzleloader)
Reply #9 - Oct 7th, 2011 at 8:55am
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powdered graphite is sold inexpensively in most auto supply and many hardware stores.  it is frequently used as an all-weather non-sticking lubricant in locks.

I'm not sure what the actual granular size is, or how clearly "colloidal" was defined in Pope's era, but the lock stuff is a real damnfine powder.   don;t spill it, it'll get everywhere Angry
  

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Doug_Nelson
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Re: The last Pope (muzzleloader)
Reply #10 - Oct 7th, 2011 at 2:56pm
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40_Rod,
Here is a source of REALLY high quality graphite:
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) .  It is very, very expensive, but it is available in small quantities.   

There is "old fashioned" steam cylinder oil available here:
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

And when you buy bayberry wax, make sure it is the real thing, not just bayberry scented paraffin.
Doug
  
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Re: The last Pope (muzzleloader)
Reply #11 - Oct 7th, 2011 at 6:09pm
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I have been using Acheson graphite  "Oildag" which is graphite in suspension and Pope mentioned it in his book as OK in place of powdered graphite. I does stay in suspension. Acheson is still in business in Ohio. I, in past purchased a case of pint cans for use by members of our club here. Don't have address at hand just now. But I can tell you a pint is a lifetime supply. When I purchased it there was a $125.00 minimum order so I canvased the club and came up with enough byers to get a case of I think 12 pints. Hope this helps. Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

FITZ
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