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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Counter fit #4 Ballard (Read 17106 times)
frnkeore
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Counter fit #4 Ballard
Aug 30th, 2011 at 9:01pm
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I've added pictures of Ballard, that I believe was made up to be a #4 But, I'm not sure because of the barrel. 

Yes, I bought it as a #4 Sad before I learned of the basic 3 line configuration on this very forum. But, the barrel still has me confused. You can see in the pictures that it's very nice and cold blued. The inside is just as nice as the outside and has a .319 groove dia. It has only the front dove tail cut and a Winchester globe sight . It's chambered in 32/40 with the reversible firing pin as the third line indicates. Breech block, barrel and frame are numbered together as seen. I don't know hoe visable it is but, there is a very faint block lettered B stamped forward of the serial number in a larger size.

The main reason I'm posting this is that, if the barrel isn't Ballard, I want to drill and tap it for scope blocks to work up some light loads for it to be shot with the 319247 165 gr bullet.

Frank
  

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Re: Counter fit #4 Ballard
Reply #1 - Aug 30th, 2011 at 9:50pm
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Frank, 

Take a real close look at those numbers. The ones on the barrel look to be a bit wider in aspec ratio than those on the receiver and block. I suspect I'm seeing other subtle differences as well but tough to tell for sure from the pictures.
  

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Re: Counter fit #4 Ballard
Reply #2 - Aug 30th, 2011 at 9:54pm
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Brian,
I had noticed that but, the scirpt looks remarkably the same. The receiver had to be done differently because of the curved surface, maybe with a special stamp, based on how even they are.

Frank
  

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Re: Counter fit #4 Ballard
Reply #3 - Aug 30th, 2011 at 10:03pm
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Frank,

To me the 0 on the barrel looks uniform comparing top and bottom curvature, while on the receiver and block, it looks more constricted at the top. 

The other subtle differences I'm seeing I'm not sure could be fully accounted for simply by changing between a curved and flat surface. 

There are a number of shops that are reproducing stamps - Letter, number, proof, etc. They can often get real close, but just not perfect. My 2 cents. 

P.S. - almost forgot about the mills that have lettering programs - pick a similiar font and start cutting - on flat and curved surfaces.
« Last Edit: Aug 30th, 2011 at 10:10pm by BP »  

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Re: Counter fit #4 Ballard
Reply #4 - Aug 30th, 2011 at 10:24pm
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I was very disappointed after I found the cast frame and I asked Val about it. He said that he didn't think it could be original because of the caliber and the frame. That's why I'm posting this, so, that if it's the consensus that it's not original, I will drill and tap it so it can be worked out for accuracy with a scope and my 319247 or 319273 mold.

Frank
  

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40_Rod
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Re: Counter fit #4 Ballard
Reply #5 - Aug 31st, 2011 at 8:44am
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My two cents here. Everything about the barrel says replaced to me. The numbers look crisp and not worn at all. Look at how the edges of the receiver are worn, now look at how crisp the edges of the flats are even where they form the tulip. My evaluation is that the barrel has been replaced. It is a good job and whoever did it numbered it to the receiver but it is not the original barrel in my estimation.

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Re: Counter fit #4 Ballard
Reply #6 - Aug 31st, 2011 at 9:16am
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I'd vote with replaced barrel as well.  I wouldn't hesitate to scope that rifle and get as much use out of it as my old eyes would allow.  Just remember that though the barrel is new and modern, the action isn't, and when you add that it is a cast action, it is essential that you limit yourself to very mild loads.  Nice problem to have, though!  Wink

Froggie
  
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Re: Counter fit #4 Ballard
Reply #7 - Aug 31st, 2011 at 9:25am
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I'll second 40 Rod and Froggie that it is a replaced barrel. It looks to be a good job it just doesn't match the patina of the receiver. Scope it and shoot it and you'll find out if it is a good job.
  
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Re: Counter fit #4 Ballard
Reply #8 - Aug 31st, 2011 at 12:35pm
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Remember that the barrel numbers would have had no, or very little wear as they are under the forearm and not subject to wear. The numbers look like they should to me. The only question I have is when you run a finger over the barrel numbers are the edges raised at all? They look it in the pictures and if they are I would agree that it is a fake. Or the numbers could have been freshened up by an engraver. And Marlin did put 32-40 in cast actions too. Not many but some.
Can you post pictures of the inside of that frame as in under the chamber area?
Mike
  
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Re: Counter fit #4 Ballard
Reply #9 - Aug 31st, 2011 at 1:52pm
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Thanks Mike, I'll do that before the day is over. I've got to run to the store and a few other things. If your asking to make sure it's cast, yes, it is diffenently cast. Hollow in the area you ask about and recessed in the top to bottom plane where the breech block goes with a casting line and texture in that area.

Is there any ducumenting of the cast frames with 32/40 barrels?

Thank you all for you input,

Frank
  

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Re: Counter fit #4 Ballard
Reply #10 - Aug 31st, 2011 at 2:14pm
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Well I'll toss my opinion in here also. If it were an original that had been refinished and reblued the area under the forearm would be very nice original bluing, as it would be protected. The cold bluing seems equal on all, and thus the numbers under the forearm would not have the raised edges of a fresh stamp once someone polished or sanded off the finish to reblue. In this case the sharp edges tell me it was stamped after it was blued, or it was bare when stamped and then blued.
Finally something about the location didn't seem right. I just finished pulling the forearms off 15 Ballards and every one had the serial number stamped within about an inch of the forearm screw. None back near the tulip at the chamber area, as your gun's barrel is.
I'm calling it a aftermarket myself.
  

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Re: Counter fit #4 Ballard
Reply #11 - Aug 31st, 2011 at 5:09pm
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Well Marlin guy I think you are right as the serial number is too far back. 
Mike
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Counter fit #4 Ballard
Reply #12 - Aug 31st, 2011 at 6:49pm
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Ok, I'll call it a "done deal" and it was as I exspected (but, one can alway hope). BP, the more that I look at that 0 the more it stands out, too.

Thank you again,

Frank
  

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Re: Counter fit #4 Ballard
Reply #13 - Aug 31st, 2011 at 8:30pm
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Frank,

On the plus side, now you can do what you want with no guilt, and find out just how well the rifle can perform.     Smiley

Good shooting!
BP
  

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Re: Counter fit #4 Ballard
Reply #14 - Aug 31st, 2011 at 11:51pm
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And remember if it is a cast action do your face and hands a favour and just shoot black in it, no smokeless.
I was teasing a good friend yesterday about work and he said well in your occupation you have to be safe, and I said yes and I still have all my fingers just a couple are crooked. I was a Master Blaster and still love playing with the stuff including munitions. But what he said next really got me as he said,  Mike, I lost 4 fingers on one hand shooting a .28 caliber percussion rifle,  and that was with 40 grains of black and a patch, no slug and the barrel came unglued. Then I asked and I bet the barrel looked great and he said yes it did.
Would not want the same to happen to any of us, hopefully we are all getting smarter as we age.
Happy Shooting
Mike
  
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