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britt
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Newbie seeking 38-55 help
Jan 1st, 2011 at 1:47am
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I'm shooting a Browning 38-55 Traditional Hunter with fixed ammo.
I've tried all the recommended loads and reloading advice from the forum using the Saeco 300 gr. spitzer bullet.  My groups are not great; 2+in at 100yd and
4+in at 200.  I'm shooting better groups with my 60 year old .22cal BSA martini 12/15.
My question is, can I or should I try breech seating using a factory chamber?  If I can does anyone know of a bullet that would or has worked in that rifle?  The bore is .376.
Thank you for any and all help 
  
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westerner
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Re: Newbie seeking 38-55 help
Reply #1 - Jan 1st, 2011 at 7:47am
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Sure, why not. If you can push the bullets into the bore till the lands go halfway into the base band without deforming the bullet you'll be fine. or about a 1/16 ahead of the case.  Plug one of your cases with a wood dowel the correct length and go for it. If your bullets are too large for the bore........ then obviously it wont work.  Soft bullets are easier to push into the rifling than hard bullets.  Tapered bullets are easier to BS than straight bullets. Your bullets need to be groove diameter or just a smidge over. Like .001. For BP loads soft bullets can be as much as .003 under groove diameter and shoot amazingly accurate. 

Your groups are about the same size as mine when I shoot PB fixed ammo in my 38/55s.   



                         Joe. 
« Last Edit: Jan 1st, 2011 at 7:54am by westerner »  

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colo native
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Re: Newbie seeking 38-55 help
Reply #2 - Jan 1st, 2011 at 8:33am
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I have 2 of these fine rifles and both will shoot very close to 1 inch at 100m..  I use cast pills that are .377,  another that is .378, and have used both .379, and .380.
I use 9 gr Uniq with both std and mag primers, depending on the temp,  and they will all group about 1 inch, some times even clover leaf..
Using browning tang sight and Lyman 17 with shaver inserts..
In fact I will leave for the range for a Ram Bash taday using one of these rifles...
  
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Re: Newbie seeking 38-55 help
Reply #3 - Jan 1st, 2011 at 8:47am
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Using every trick learned over 17 years same barrel my CPA 38/55 is a 1 1/2 MOA rifle.  That for long runs 10 shots anytime not 3 shot groups once in a blue moon.  Same rifle switch to the Rimfire barrel it's a 1 MOA rifle. Good .22's are as accurate as any rifle..

ASSRA 25 Ring at 200 yards is 1 1/2 inches. Purpose built pure bench guns with powerful scopes don't put 10 shots in the 25 ring often.  Point is you are not far off potential.  However the difference in 2 moa and 1 moa is going to take a lot of tweaking and experimentation.

That gun will shoot, have seen Col Natives Browning do very well, just keep working with it.  My experience is most gains are made with bullet size and temper


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MIKE-T
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Re: Newbie seeking 38-55 help
Reply #4 - Jan 1st, 2011 at 1:59pm
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britt had the earlier Winchester version of your Browning 1885 Traditional rifle, I found that it shot the 255gr Saeco actually about 257gr cast from 25:1 lead/tin alloy bullet much better, could never get the 300gr Saeco to shoot near as well. My best load with the 257gr Saeco was 23 grains of H4198 and WW standard large rifle primers, bullet seated just deep enough to touch the rifling, came close to outright winning some CBA matches with this load and rifle. 
I also used a older Hoch tapered 295gr .376" bullet with a load of 22.7 grains of Vihtavuori N120, Federal Large rifle primer, bullet seated about .250" deep (photo of bullet and it seated in case), this bullet shot much better than the Saeco 300grain bullet, have no idea what the difference was.

My rifle shot very well off the bench at 100 and 200 yards, I'd say it averaged 1.25" at 100 for ten shots and under 4" at 200 yds and when I did my part as small as 3", understand when I shot that rifle often it was in CBA with a 24x scope and on score targets.

Good luck with your rifle, I know they will shoot you just have to keep after it, bought mine to hunt with originally and when I started to reload for it and tried different bullets and powders I was amazed how accurate it was, been sorry every since I sold it, but the CPA Addiction hit me  Smiley and that was the end of the W1885.

MIKE-T
« Last Edit: Jan 1st, 2011 at 3:04pm by MIKE-T »  
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britt
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Re: Newbie seeking 38-55 help
Reply #5 - Jan 1st, 2011 at 11:18pm
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Mike-T, do you know the diameter of the base band on the Saeco or 
Hoch bullets and if those molds are available any more.  So often I'll hear about a bullet that works but they are no longer available.
Thanks again for all the good advice.
Britt
  
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MIKE-T
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Re: Newbie seeking 38-55 help
Reply #6 - Jan 2nd, 2011 at 9:42am
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I'm sure you can order a Hoch they are pretty much a custom made mould, my mould has a base band diameter of .376" cast from 25:1 alloy. ( (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) )

The Saeco 255gr is just the short version of the 300gr it is still listed on the Redding/Saeco web site, and as I remember the base size on the 255 was the same size as the 300gr bullet. Do not have the actual base size since I sold both moulds with the rifle. 
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Buffalo Arms has the Saeco moulds, they are listed as .378" Diameter
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britt all my 38-55 bullets were/are shot as cast, pan lubed.

I'm actually looking for the short Saeco 38-55 225gr version for a youth project.

MIKE-T

« Last Edit: Jan 2nd, 2011 at 9:48am by MIKE-T »  
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britt
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Re: Newbie seeking 38-55 help
Reply #7 - Jan 2nd, 2011 at 12:37pm
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Thanks again Tom-T.  I bought a Saeco #571 300gr. mold based on what someone else had posted.  When I cast some 25-1 bullets they measured .382+ at the base.  I couldn't even chamber a fixed ammo round(usually fireformed and unsized) without squeezing the case and deforming the bullet.  Buying molds as a trial and error method of finding a great bullet is so expensive.  I will contact Hock and and some other mold makers who have probably made molds for my rifle.
Britt
  
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Re: Newbie seeking 38-55 help
Reply #8 - Jan 2nd, 2011 at 1:01pm
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britt I'm sure you can find someone to make a mould to fit your rifle, do a chamber throat cast/swage and send it to whoever you select to make your mould, I really like the Hoch, but Paul Jones also builds a fantastic mould as does David Mos.
A shooting buddy uses a version of the PJ mould #38003 300gr Chicken bullet (his is sized & tapered to fit his rifle, breech seated) in CBA competition and he does very well at 200yds.

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Good luck on your quest,  Smiley Smiley Smiley
MIKE-T
  
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Re: Newbie seeking 38-55 help
Reply #9 - Jan 2nd, 2011 at 1:01pm
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I have a C Sharps high wall in 38-55 with a 15 inch twist. I shoot a hoch 310 nose pour in 20-1 mix. With 43.1 gr of black powder I can get 3/4 t0 1 inch groups at 100 yards. It took a couple years and a lot of playing around with it to find right combo . Keep trying different loads and combinations till she does what you want. wildthing
  
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Re: Newbie seeking 38-55 help
Reply #10 - Jan 2nd, 2011 at 5:00pm
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That Saeco mold is the one I use for fixed smokless powder in my CPA.  What I hear rather than what I know guys tell me the Starline 38/55 brass is thinner wall and will accept bullets that the others won't.

Something to the effect of Winchester Brass actually drawn for .375 Winchester just trimmed and stamped different while the Starline being a bit thinner accepts fat bullets better. Do a search over on the Marlin Collectors forum and a whole lot on the topic.

Saeco 571 with W-W brass is fine in my CPA. loaded fixed there is no buldge or sign visable were the bullet is seated in the case  However I do use a Lyman M die to expand the neck and flare when loading.  That's about essential in any cast bullet fixed ammo load.  You can also get the M Plugs custom sizes to suit your particular bullet. .382 is pretty fat though. A cheap way to find out would be to get a custom Lee bullet size die. They push through from the bottom using your loading press.  Cut it down a bit and see if the problem goes away. You could use a harder alloy too which would throw a smaller bullet.

Of course the next question is expanded neck will the cartridge still chamber. Thing about 38/55's is there is a lot of varation in barrels and chambers.  Old guns were mostly 380 bore while new made barrels most made from .375 blanks. .375 being a more common size for .375 Win 375 H&H  and other modern cartridges the barrel makers just make that size 

Weather has me behind on casting but if I get a few good days next week will have some 38's out of 3 molds,  Saeco, LBT and Hoch I can mail you samples to try fits. Will also put the mike on my M die plug just to see what size it is.

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Re: Newbie seeking 38-55 help
Reply #11 - Jan 5th, 2011 at 1:21pm
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Hello, britt.  Years ago, when I first started shooting with the guys at the Michigan Schuetzen Society, I was using an original Winchester High-Wall in .38-55.  I sent Hoch chamber cast & he made me up a tapered bullet for breech-seating.  At the same time, I had him make a copy of the Lyman 375248, only with a slightly smaller meplat, this was .380 dia. for the .379 groove dia.  Both moulds were nose-pour.  I have tried both methods for years, fixed & breech-seated, and to be honest, after nearly 20 years...Man where do the years go! I really can not say one method is more accurate than the other.  I was getting (when I could still see..lol) 1" groups with either at 100yds. with Mike Stevens Soule tang & globe front.  Won matches with either at 200yd.  Maybe just me or old equipment?
  
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