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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Help re a Colt-Sharps with an extraction problem (Read 14284 times)
runningiron
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Help re a Colt-Sharps with an extraction problem
Oct 30th, 2010 at 4:32pm
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I bought a Colt-Sharps single shot rifle at the Dallas Market Hall gun show a few months back. Beautiful rifle and has all the original accessories.  I took it out to the range for the first time this morning and received a very rude surprise.  When I called it a single shot, that's exactly what it turned out to be.  I had a complete failure to extract the fired .25-06 case.  Of course, being an optimist, I had not taken a cleaning rod with me to the range.  I took the rifle home and got the case out with said cleaning rod.  The extractor seems to work fine as long as there is no case in the chamber, but it will not even extract an unfired case.  I am about to order a new extractor, extractor plunger and plunger spring from Numrich, but I have no clue as to how to disassemble the action.  I know that a few people on the board have some experience with the rifle.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  Does anyone have detailed stripping instructions?  Any assistance would be appreciated.
  

Murphy was an optimist
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harry_eales
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Re: Help re a Colt-Sharps with an extraction problem
Reply #1 - Oct 31st, 2010 at 4:32am
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Hello Runningiron,

For an owners manual I'd suggest you try the Colt Factory they may have one or let you have a photocopy of one from their archive if they have none for sale. 

With only a few (low hundreds) made very few gunsmiths have seen one, never mind had experience in repairing them. Those involved in the original design and prototype construction back in the early 1970's have either retired or passed on. As far as I aware this action was not covered by the late Frank DeHaas in his books on single shot rifles.

I'm rather surprised to read Numrich has spare parts, given so few rifles were actually made. Are you certain it's the same model rifle?

With a little luck someone on this Forum may have enough information to enable you to strip yours down without bending anything. It could be something simple that's gone wrong or got bent but until you can strip it down you'll never know.

Harry
  
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runningiron
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Re: Help re a Colt-Sharps with an extraction problem
Reply #2 - Oct 31st, 2010 at 7:14pm
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Yeah, based on the numbers, I didn't expect a flood of information on this one.  I thought I had read in a thread here on the forun, though, on how to remove the block.  Alas, I haven't been able to find it  again, but I'll keep looking.
Volleman, thanks for the book reference.  I have all of his books but that one.  I'll try to locate a copy.
  

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runningiron
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Re: Help re a Colt-Sharps with an extraction problem
Reply #3 - Oct 31st, 2010 at 7:36pm
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Well, I found the post I was looking for, from BrianJ, on how to pull the block.
  

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BrianJ
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Re: Help re a Colt-Sharps with an extraction problem
Reply #4 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 8:32pm
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Check your PM.

It may not be your extractor but the spring or set screw. Early rifles had possible extractor problems with a thin web. That was supposedly corrected before Colt bought them but even so its possible it could have broken.
As I recall the breakdown GPC shows is not the same as that put out by Colt. I supplied that at the time and felt it better than Colts. There were differences but off hand can't recall what they were. Old Age

One of the changes Colt made was the addition of an extractor screw, spring and plunger. This is the small hole bottom right side of receiver next to the action pin (screw). The three items go here to put pressure on the extractor. see if there is an allen screw inside and try to turn CW.

One of the problems with the CS is that running changes were being made and not all are alike.

BrianJ
« Last Edit: Nov 2nd, 2010 at 9:22pm by BrianJ »  
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runningiron
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Re: Help re a Colt-Sharps with an extraction problem
Reply #5 - Nov 6th, 2010 at 11:39pm
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Well, I think I know what's going on with my CS.  I didn't have a dummy round to work with, so I got out my Forster GO gauge.  I could not close the block, so then I tried to chamber my Aim Shot 25-05 arbor.  It was a good quarter inch shy of seating.  I think the damn thing is chambered too tighly.  Is that a reasonable assumption?
  

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38_Cal
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Re: Help re a Colt-Sharps with an extraction problem
Reply #6 - Nov 7th, 2010 at 1:12am
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Anything's possible with your chamber...more likely that you might have a partial case stuck in the chamber, from a case separation.  You can tell what's going on with a chamber cast, using Cerrosafe.  If it's a too-tight chamber, you'll be able to measure it, if it's a separated case, you should be able to remove it with the chamber cast, as long as the cast goes into the bore by about 3/8".

David
  

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harry_eales
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Re: Help re a Colt-Sharps with an extraction problem
Reply #7 - Nov 7th, 2010 at 4:11am
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runningiron wrote on Nov 6th, 2010 at 11:39pm:
Well, I think I know what's going on with my CS.  I didn't have a dummy round to work with, so I got out my Forster GO gauge.  I could not close the block, so then I tried to chamber my Aim Shot 25-05 arbor.  It was a good quarter inch shy of seating.  I think the damn thing is chambered too tighly.  Is that a reasonable assumption?


Hello runningiron,

In your original post you stated you "fired one shot, and got a failure to extract, and that it required a cleaning rod to tap out the fired case".

Was that case intact when removed?

You then went on to say that unfired cases wouldn't extract either.

That means you managed to chamber a case.

You wouldn't be able to chamber an empty case if there was a partially separated case in the chamber

So, I don't think you have a neck separated case. It could be a tight neck on the chamber, or, it may be the chamber is 'ringed'.

Certainly I would suggest you do as 38_Cal suggests first, but there are other options to consider as well.

Once you have established there is no part separated case in the chamber, then do a full chamber cast and check it against the specifications for the round. It's also possible than someone has been fooling around and perhaps altering the chamber without altering the calibre markings.

Harry
  
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BrianJ
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Re: Help re a Colt-Sharps with an extraction problem
Reply #8 - Nov 7th, 2010 at 10:19am
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Runningiron,

Its possible.

I have a 243 CS that is "short chambered" from the factory. Most, not all, new factory cases or factory loaded ammo will not chamber in mine. I ended up shortening my cases about .015" in the sizing die.

bjm
« Last Edit: Nov 7th, 2010 at 10:39am by BrianJ »  
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runningiron
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Re: Help re a Colt-Sharps with an extraction problem
Reply #9 - Nov 7th, 2010 at 9:00pm
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Thanks for all of the suggestions.  
To clear up a few things, the fired case came out intact, but will not rechamber without a lot of effort.  I wasn't paying attention when I loaded that first round, and I can't remember if it felt tight going in.  I have noticed that new unfired rounds I've tried to load since then are very snug and have to be pushed in with considerably more effort than is required with any of my other falling blocks.  A forster GO gauge will not seat enough to close the block.  I am going to have a chamber cast done, as suggested so I can see what it looks like.  If it turns out that it is just a short or tight chamber, I'll have my 'smith run a finishing reamer to open it up a bit.  If that's not the issue I'll try to find someone with a bore scope to look closely at the chamber and neck for issues there.
  

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harry_eales
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Re: Help re a Colt-Sharps with an extraction problem
Reply #10 - Nov 9th, 2010 at 5:19pm
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Thanks for the access route to the Patent, Volleman, I hadn't been able to locate it before.

Goodness knows why they called it the Colt Sharps. I can understand the Colt bit, but it bears damn little resemblence to even the Sharps Borchardt apart from the fact it was a hammerless falling block, and there were many of those, especially on my side of the pond.

Harry
  
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runningiron
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Re: Help re a Colt-Sharps with an extraction problem
Reply #11 - Nov 10th, 2010 at 8:25pm
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I bought two forearms from them to replace the bevertail foreend on my rifle.  I didn't know if I would prefer the 12 inche or 14 inche.  The wood is gorgeous, but the checkering pattern is just a little bit different.  Neither of them will fit as received, but I think it's just a matter of a little fitting.
  

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runningiron
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Re: Help re a Colt-Sharps with an extraction problem
Reply #12 - Nov 10th, 2010 at 8:26pm
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And Volleman, thanks for the patent information.  I had not a clue on how to find it.
  

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runningiron
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Re: Help re a Colt-Sharps with an extraction problem
Reply #13 - Nov 10th, 2010 at 8:43pm
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I just start reading the patent.  Anybody notice the phrase 'relatively inexpensive"?
  

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harry_eales
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Re: Help re a Colt-Sharps with an extraction problem
Reply #14 - Nov 12th, 2010 at 3:11pm
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I've always been of the opinion, that the reason the Colt/Sharps rifle failed, was that it was offered in post 1900 calibres, (needle blowers if you will), rather than the more traditional big bore black powder rounds that most single shot afficianardo's seem to prefer.

I loved the look of the rifle, but I would never have bought it (had I had the opportunity) in any of the calibres that it was offered in. It may have paid Colt to do some market research first, before deciding on chambering it for relatively modern (white powder) calibre's.

I sincerely apologise to anyone offended by the swear words, 'White Powder'.

Harry
  
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