I hate auctions!  I don't do well at them.  I went to an auction and bought a Stevens mod .44 in .38x55.  I got the gun and 3 boxes of new ammo for $400.  Sounds okay, but the gun has been re-blued, and that's a big turn off for me.  The wood is nice the bore is pretty good, but I shouldn't have bought it.  I don't like re-blued guns.  The gun was going for cheap and at the last minute I got in at about $225 and thought I was going to get a shooter for cheap.  However, someone else had the same thoughts.  Before you know it, they're telling me I bought it.  Oh well.  I think I can carry it around a gun show and get my money back.   

On the other hand, I would have felt worse if I were the guys buying Crack Shots and Favorites in fair condition with poor bores and no blue left for $200.  I just don't think they are worth that kinda money.

Yes guilty on all counts!  Impulse buy - buyers remorse - whatever you call it.  I live with it for awhile, and maybe  it'll grow on me.  I told you I don't do well at auctions, and I meant it.

CM, Was that on purpose????,,, we all make mistake,,you'ld feel....      MIKE

I'm thinkin, I'm thinkin....  Let me look at it for awhile.  I'm pretty busy for the next few days.  Perhaps by this weekend I can get some pictures of it posted for ya'll to look at.

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  Powder-Head
 
   I'm grateful to know that you are looking at your newly acquired J. Steven Model 44 rifle chambered in 38-55 caliber, rather than shooting it !

   While you are thinking (thinking) about your Stevens rifle, please give your utmost attention to these cautionary remarks that I offer to you out of my concern for your safety.  The J. Stevens rifle which you recently purchased, and now own, is an antique of more than 100 years old.  You will find that exact Stevens "Ideal" rifle/action written up in the J. Stevens catalog No. 50, dated 1902.  The action was designed and engineered by competent people around the black powder propellant of that day.  The basic design of the action is inherently a weak or low pressure design made from materials that were available 100 years ago.  The rifle was offered for sale chambered in the 38-55 cartridge, but bear in mind,  the then available cartridges were factory loaded with black powder of a charge of 48 grains of Fg.

  You have mentioned that the rifle was delivered to you with a certain quantity (3 boxes) of MODERN loaded 38-55 ammunition.  Therein lies my real concern for you.  Please, under no condition must you shoot that rifle with the ammunition that was furnished to you upon your purchase.  No one knows, not you or anyone else, what loading charge is contained in those cartridges.  Under the best of circumstance, you have a potentially very dangerous situation; and let's face it, you are under the worst of circumstance by not knowing the loading characteristics of the cartridges that came with the rifle.

   Prudence would dictate that the ammunition be dis-assembled by a competent gunsmith, while at the same time the rifle be examined by the gunsmith for a complete safety evaluation in advance of it's use, if ever.

   I will sleep better tonight for having said this.    

    Creedmoormatch

Agree with and support all cautionary warnings previously stated. 

Now for a question I haven't seen asked, and hopefully some thoughtful responses. 

Provided that one is organized enough to keep various dedicated loadings separated for their respective rifles, how does everyone feel about using the Stevens 44 with the qualifier that it be restricted to original level Gallery Loads only ?

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      Admittedly,  there are certain dangers in this life to the unknowing that have the greatest propensity for doing the most harm to them.  The sorrowful part is that they don't know, that they don't know.

      Mr. John Taylor, if you should arrive at this posting sir, would you be so kind to describe for the doubters among us your witness to the fractured central fire breech block from the failed Stevens M-44 action that your client recently brought to your attention for evaluation and repair.  The evidence is clear and convincing and points to the fact that the Stevens M-44 was designed and manufactured with materials appropriate for accommodating low pressure black powder ammunition, and consequently, will not tolerate high pressure ammunition.
 
      If you need pictures, and I clearly understand that some doubters will, I feel certain that Mr. Taylor will accommodate you and provide them from his file should he have them available.

     Creedmoormatch

  And a young boy exclaimed ;  " Yah never _ _ _ it it ! "


   P.S. Please see the following thread for Mr. Taylor's remarks;

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I can only deduce from the broken 25 rf breach block that the 44 Stevens isn't even safe to shoot in 22 rf or that the safety is on the ragged edge in 22 rf? Was the 25 rf failure investigated and what was the conclusion to that investigation? The 25 rf failure should indicate that there would be many, many failures in calibers between 25/20 and 32/40 and 38/55 (38/55 has less back pressure than 32/40 because of the lack of taper in the case, sectional density's being equal).

By that, it would seem that the Favorites should be considered unsafe with any thing, even shorts.

The radial and axial strength can be calculated for for any gun and anything up to 1/2 the yield strength should be considered safe. I'm guessing that there more to the 25 rf failure than meets the eye. I've not even loosen the breach block screw on my 7 o'clock extractor 32/40 with duplex BP and 12.2 gr 4759 loads with the Hudson bullet.

Tell me more, please,

Frank

PS,
This is a repost

Hi John,
I respectfully submit that your bolt  thrust pressures are based on entirely different pressure levels. My info gives the 32/20 at 17,700 cup and the current 38/55 is the HV level of 33,200 cup. 44's were never made to the HV spec. The 32/20 case head area is right at .66 of the 38/55 or to put it the other way the 38/55 has head with 1.515  more area than 32/20. Given those numbers, the bolt thrust would be 2324 pounds bolt thrust with both cartridges at your pressure level for the 32/20.

That said, I do agree with your maximum case head size for longevity of the action.

I bought my 32/40 in '85, my very first single shot. It has the hammer block that bares on the squared off firing pin it's self and it's a 7 o'clock extractor ser.# 10,551. I knew nothing of singles shots at that time accept that I loved them. So, I went out and bought a box of John Wayne ammo and sighted it in  I've fired no more than 200 rounds of the loads I listed above in this thread and it's still as tight as it was when i bought it, John Wayne loads and all. I have to say that it was in as new condition when i bought, all blueing and color caseing in tack and the barrel like new inside and out.

Very respectfully,

Frank

Well, I need to thank all of you for your encouragement to not fire this rifle.  I was actually thinking of shooting it.   I may decide to sell it after all since it has been re-blued, and I can't shoot it either.  That's two strikes against it.  If I do decide to sell, I will give consideration to those here who have expressesd some interest in it.  Thanks again.

frnkeore, I'm trying to figure out where you came up with your numbers. SAAMI specs for the 32-20 is 16,000 psi and the 38-55 is 30,000.
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The area in front of the rim is the part used for figuring bolt thrust, sort of like hydraulic cylinders. You can't rely on the brass gripping the chamber walls to hold some of the pressure. While this will hold sometimes there is always a chance of case head separation.
To figure area the formula is Pi  R squared. Area for the 32-20 is .0983 X 16,000 = 1,574 pounds . Area for the 38-55 is .1395 X 30,000 = 4,184 pounds. 
The 25-35 that broke the breach block has a bolt thrust of 5,871
I know, my numbers are different from the first post. I used a different book for sizes.
Please except my apology if I'm way off base here.
By the way, that's a nice looking rifle.

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The preceeding may be found in the 4th paragraph  at

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The SAAMI pressure specs for the 38-55 from the link John kindly posted are 30,000 cup. The same pressure spec is listed for the 32-40.

The way I read it, the SAAMI compliant loads would be something akin to a +P or +P+ loading when used in the Stevens 44, so I'm not surprised that the old 44 actions loosened up or worse when fed a steady diet of SAAMI spec rounds. And didn't SAAMI show up some time after the 44 was designed? 

It's important to know the original pressure level your firearm was designed for, and to load accordingly. 

Frank, that is a really nice 44! 

Frank,

I recognise your formula for area from engineering. The version I learned was   area = [ (dia squared)/4 ] x Pi
Your version just leaves dia squared as is and divides Pi by 4 to give the .7854 constant. We end up in the same place.  

Forgot to add in my previous post that your experience using a tight 44 in excellent condition with the John Wayne SAAMI level loads demonstrated that the action had at least some ability to handle pressures above its intended design criteria. The key of course is not to intrude into the design safety factor.

Regards,
BP

I worked in Hydraulics for years and figure the chamber wall like a cylinder and the brass like a piston. If there is a case separation in front of the rim then the whole area of the chamber diameter would be used, also if there is any lube on the brass that keeps it from clinging to the chamber wall, it would create the same effect. I know I probably figure worst case scenario but it only take one time to wreck your day or your life. Working with guns  daily I get to see a lot of failures and it scares me a bit.
Then there are people who just don't understand like the man that wanted me to put a 50 BMG on and old break open 10 gauge.
I hope I didn't offend anyone here but I would rather be on the safe side than the sorry side.

Joel Black wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2010 at 2:46pm:


I have had several 32-40s and 38-55s come through the shop, never saw one that I would want to shoot. They were all wore out and the hammer no longer held the breach up the way it was intended. Maybe the ones I see are sent to me because of the problems.  All of them looked really hammered. I don't know what types of loads were used in them over the years but many looked like they had been seeing to much pressure. I appears if one was properly treated it would hold up as yours has done.