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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) ML schuetzen resources (Read 69708 times)
westerner
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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #90 - Dec 24th, 2009 at 5:09pm
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Rifle arrived DW.  Groove is .438, gain twist. Near as I can tell it ends at about 22-24.  Six groove, equal width land and groove. The bore is silky smooth all the way down. Think I'll start out with paper patched bullets. 


                                            Joe.  Smiley
  

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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #91 - Dec 24th, 2009 at 5:27pm
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WE NEED PICTURES!!!!!!    

I'd especially like to see what the sights are like?   any markings?

   Your's has a much tighter groove than mine.  I was really surprised to see that Grimm used a Remington barrel to build mine.  So he'd have to use whatever Remington had available for him. It'd be interesting to know who was making the gain twist barrels like yours.
  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #92 - Dec 24th, 2009 at 7:14pm
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Pictures?  Huh     Is that some kind of forum Rule?  Roll Eyes

From what I remember reading, I think it was one of Ned Roberts books. Remington supplied the barrels with a small starter hole so a smith could drill ream and rifle it to whatever size he needed. I'm not sure if Remington made the false muzzles also. 

Havent had this one apart yet. The front sight isnt original. The barrel has the windage marks just back of the muzzle like yours.  I'll get my camera going here perty quick. No marks on the outside. 

                        Joe.
  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #93 - Dec 24th, 2009 at 7:54pm
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DW,

Does your Grimm rifle have a barrel marked "Remington Cast Steel?" In the 1840's, 50's and 60's, Remington barrels were very common, I think about half the muzzle-loading rifles I own have Remington Cast Steel barrels, I think Remington sold these in many different weights with a hole down the center.

Bob
  
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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #94 - Dec 24th, 2009 at 8:44pm
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yeah,  its got the cast steel stamping.  I've got a note from Dick Binger here somewhere commenting on remington's sales---leseee--
here it is

 "Wayne:
 Remington supplied barrels for many top name gun builders from the 1850-s until the early 1900-s
You could get any size or caliber. they asked for a second choice. You could also get 'em with a false muzzle fitted in either smooth bore or rifled. Rem. installed false muzzles had a knurled ring near each end of the f.m. Rem. also sold locks, triggers and castings for the triggerguard buttplate, capbox and toe plate. These have a distinct shape and can be picked ou easily
 Rem. barrel blanks were used by Zischang and some by Schoyen & Peterson. Buying already octagon, smooth-reamed blanks saved the builder a tremendous amount of time and work.
 Rem. blanks are found on a great number of rifles made in the mid-west. The Erie Canal delivered them to western New York and wagons took them to their destination.
 Many experts and "experts" agree that Rem. didn't make any complete rifles, except 1 or 2, until he won the contract to produce the Jenks rifle for the army."
  RB
  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #95 - Dec 24th, 2009 at 9:57pm
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I remember shooting on the bench next to Milo Taylor in the early 70’s, he was shooting a very heavy Norman Brockway slug gun with a full length Stevens scope, the barrel was marked on the side “Remington Cast Steel,” it never occurred to me that the false muzzle might have been originally installed my Remington.

Bob
  
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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #96 - Dec 24th, 2009 at 10:08pm
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Wouldn't it be delightfully cool to find an old catalogue with all the Remington stuff in it.  Next time I'm working down in his part of IN I'll have to stop and talk with Dick and learn more about it.

Joe you need to leave Santa an especially nice plate of cookies and something more than a glass of milk for making sure you got that rifle in time for Christmas

I sure hope all you guys are safe and warm this Christmas Eve. and that no matter how 2009 was---2010 will be a big improvement over it.
  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #97 - Dec 25th, 2009 at 1:08am
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I did, I left him some beer, but he drank it already. All I can do is leave him more.

The wiping rod for this rifle is tapered. The small end is a very fancy brass jag that measure s about .250. connected to a rosewood rod with an ivory tip. Where it meets the ivory the rosewood is .330. Never seen one like that before. I removed the breechplug and reslugged. The bore is .424 and groove is .440. Very shiny bore the entire length. 

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The rifle has a bit more patina, " rust " than I thought it had. Oh well, as its new custodian I'll do my job by knocking all the loose stuff off and use it a lot. The rifle looks like it was forgotten somewhere for a very long time and thats sad.  Better days ahead now.  Now for a projectile!!!  Smiley


                                            Joe. 

« Last Edit: Dec 25th, 2009 at 1:14am by westerner »  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #98 - Dec 25th, 2009 at 6:47am
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A merry Christmas morning to you and congratulations on a fine looking vintage rifle.   Interesting markings on the barrel and breech.  Your index marks on the muzzle are much more complete than mine I just have a single center nick that is shaped such that it look like the maker gave the barrel a light punch with the edge and corner of a chisel.   
Yours are complex enough they might have been used with some sort of adjustable wind-gauge sight.  the rear is similar in style but with a fair number of differences.
   Nice engraving on the breech-plug, looks like it might extend onto the tang as well; at lest it looks like a border line on the tang.

Is the muzzel flat, or drilled / recessed for a false muzzle or plunger starter?

On my Pauli sidelever break-open stalking rifle there was a fairly even coating of fine red rust on the barrel when I got it.  A bit more and slightly coarser than if you were doing a neidner rust blue so I rubbed it down with 4/0 steel wool and boiled it just like I would have done with a rust blue job. Oiled it with PB Blaster (an automotive supply penetrating oil I use for a lot of things) while it was still hot then polished it again. It turned out great a slightly patchy hard patina somewhere between a blue and a brown that looks like natural wear.

correct bullets are a real challenger are they not?
  I was hoping that Santa would bring my moulds, but he must have been busy too with the good kids.  I put out some Springerli and schnapps for him--but since he didn't show  .  .  .  .  .
What few moulds and bullets Rowe shows are mostly the earlier sugar loaf style.  I have to wonder what he might have left out due to space or art requirements.

Enjoy the Day
  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #99 - Dec 26th, 2009 at 9:27am
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The muzzle of this rifle has the four holes for a false muzzle, unfortunately its long gone.  Sad  I plan to make a new one with smooth - bore diameter hole for loading. 

All the furniture on the rifle is engraved.

This morning I cast some 412-263 bullets. Made up some Chase patches from .007 thick cotton bond paper. One wrap and the bullets are right at bore diameter. What luck!  Cheesy  The idea here is just to see if the rifle with stabilize a 300 grain bullet. I stuck the Chase patches in a film container and poured some honing oil in and shook it up. 
I loaded up the red rocket and headed out to find a spot where I could shoot it at 25-50 yards. I wound up shooting at 90 yards. I got four shots off before it got to dark to shoot. My luck holding out again I shot a pair of 23s offhand. Not liking the recoil at 40 grains Swiss I reduced the charge to 30. The third shot was low. On the fourth shot I held high rather than adjust the sight and shot high. All four shots made a nice neat round hole. Man, what luck!  Cheesy


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It's been a good day.  Wink


                         Joe. 


             
« Last Edit: Dec 26th, 2009 at 9:35am by westerner »  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #100 - Dec 26th, 2009 at 11:14am
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That looks like a really unique rifle.  Is it my imagination or is that ratchet-groove pattern rifling?   

Way cool on the shooting, I still have not gotten to fire mine yet Cry.  Maybe later this weekend, or when I get down to TN later in the week--I'm taking a couple guns to play with.
  What grade Swiss were you using   I have some 3x Goex and also some old oval can 3 and 2x DuPont.   I'm going to start with some Minie' type bullets as well as some 400 gr 45-70 bullets.
  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #101 - Dec 26th, 2009 at 12:46pm
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The Swiss was 1 1/2.  It does look like ratchet rifling for sure. I'll have to take a closer look at the slug I pushed through the bore. I'm thrilled that it stabilized the 300 grain bullet. The first time I checked the twist the rod didnt quite make one revolution in the length of the barrel. Was down for a few minutes till it turned out to be a gain twist.  Smiley


                       Joe.
  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #102 - Dec 27th, 2009 at 5:11am
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The Grooves are cut with one side rounded, the other square. The bottom of the groove is not the same depth at both sides but gets shallower at the rounded side.  The grooves are narrower than the lands by .030. Odd for sure. 

      Joe.
  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #103 - Dec 27th, 2009 at 9:17am
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Joe,  That IS unusual.  wish you'd consider posting a new thread with the rifling data--muzzle and slug pictures.  It's be real interesting to know if anyone else has ever seen a rifling profile like that.  It might be a clue to help you find the maker.

Hope you had a real good Christmas
Wayne
  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #104 - Dec 31st, 2009 at 6:05pm
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False muzzle is done. 


                        Joe.
  

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