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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) ML schuetzen resources (Read 69777 times)
Green_Frog
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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #30 - Dec 2nd, 2009 at 10:19am
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DW, how are you doing on the search for that discontinued mould?  Did you get it, or should I continue my own inquiries?  Huh

Froggie
  
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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #31 - Dec 3rd, 2009 at 12:16am
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Green_Frog wrote on Dec 2nd, 2009 at 10:19am:
DW, how are you doing on the search for that discontinued mould?  Did you get it, or should I continue my own inquiries?  Huh

Froggie



Is it a secret discontinued mold you cant share with the rest of us?   Shocked

It must be perty rare and hard to find huh?  Shocked

Is it a special adjustable two part bore riding reverse taper thick skirt percussion rifle money bullet with a bidirectional dirt scraper?  Huh  


                         Joe.  Smiley



« Last Edit: Dec 3rd, 2009 at 12:23am by westerner »  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #32 - Dec 3rd, 2009 at 5:55am
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No, it actually was a Lee mould for a TC muzzle loader that has been discontinued but that DW wanted to try in this rifle.  I had located one for him at his request earlier in the thread.  I just wanted to make sure the deal had been successful.  Nothing to see here, folks, move along.

Froggie
  
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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #33 - Dec 3rd, 2009 at 3:32pm
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Well then would you mind telling us the number of the mold?

 I'll put it as plain as possible.  Will you DW or Green_Frog post on this thread the number of the Lee discontinued mold that DW is trying to obtain?  I'm not going to "move along" GF. I am interested in this thread and the rifles being discussed. 

          Joe.
  

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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #34 - Dec 3rd, 2009 at 5:12pm
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it is the discontinued Lee  Modern-Minie'. looks like a giant hollowbase wadcutter with a whole lot of shallow grease groves---darn near looks threaded.    They still make it in two flavore of 50 cal.


One of Charlies N/S SA  friends has one he's going to sell me along whit  another one. Lee's 45 cal version the "improved Minie"  which is still available.  Froggie I'm sending you a PM

{BTW:  loading the modern minie" backwards in a 45colt case makes a BODACIOUS close range self defense load}

I finally managed to get the nipple out.  It was completely plugged in the small diameter lower end.  fortunately the snail of the patent breech cleaned right up.  I'd soaked the barrrel for about 24 hours with an inch or so of PB Blaster in the bore and a liberal application on the outside. then with more than a little trepidation and a good set of vice grips on the nipple wrench and some serious elbow grease the nipple unscrewed cleanly.  however it was really plugged hard

I visited 4 gunstores today betwen courthouse visits tryingto find a replacement but its an odd size.  none of the commonly available ones were even close.  the standard 1/4-20 was too small.  I went to a hardware store to see if I could at least fine a nut in the thread size.  struck out there none of the SAE stuff was close, 7mm was too tight and 8mm was too loose and the threads were too coarse to boot.

I was able to clean out the original nipple using a dremel on slow speed and some dental bits and now if I snap a cap I'm getting smoke out the right end of the barrel.

mMybe this evening I'll start on some of the stock repairs.

Tomorrow I'll finally get to shoot it--weather permitting.                       I'll start with a few patched round balls with maybe 50 gr of FFF and see of that goes.  I also have some dead soft 405 gr bullets I think will work in a clean bore
  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #35 - Dec 3rd, 2009 at 5:35pm
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DW, 
Check Dixie Gun Works, they have all sorts of nipples. I didn't know they made that "modern minnie" in .45. I found a '96 catalog with only .50 & .54. I have the "improved minnie" moulds in .451 & .454 and some bullets cast in the .454 mould if that might help.
  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #36 - Dec 3rd, 2009 at 6:32pm
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the biggest problem will be getting the size and threads measured and calculated.  I can mike the outside diameter and the length of the threaded part and then count the threads to get a rough calculation. 

Over all its .630 long tip to base.  the threaded portion is about .21 long from the flat base to the shoulder.  The OD of the threads is from .292 to .289 as I rotate it between the jaws of the digital mike.  There appear to be 5 or 6 threads between the flat base and where they run out against the shoulder.  It takes #11 caps nicely and does not appear at all battered.

Do you think a very small amount of that silvery anti-seize compound rubbed into the nipple threads would be beneficial?

I'm thinking of taking it to a local  "fastenal"-type shop that has all sorts of nuts and bolts and see if I can find something that it threads into correctly.

  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #37 - Dec 3rd, 2009 at 6:38pm
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Man where were you guy's a few weeks ago when I was asking about a ML Suetzen rifle. All I got was beat up for asking about such a thing. Cool  

Hay that's OK as you can see there are more of us out there that love these great target rifles.

I ordered my 35 cal. Bristlen Morges two weeks ago, which is very similar to the rifle DW has shown us. Pedersoli makes these in small quantities so it will take about six months to get here. They also make a mould for this same rifle that throws a .447 GG bullet that might be what DW needs for his beauty. If mine doesn't turn out I will be forced to build from scratch.


Shoot more Schuetzen,

James
  
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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #38 - Dec 3rd, 2009 at 7:51pm
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James, 

Frankly I never paid much attention to the earlier M/L phase of the schuetzen sport until I latched onto this original.   Since the ASSRA's charter / rules /history is dedicated to the single shot cartridge rifles thats what I've been interested in.  also our matches are set up for the guns that meet our "legal" definition. {understand that I recognize and support that rule--you can't take a tennis racquet to a hockey game and expect to play} that leaves the M/L part of the sport hanging in space.  There is just no way we could use a M/L rifle in ASSRA (or ISSA too I believe) competition.  Even bringing it up  here had me feeling like I was bringing a cat to a dog show.  Obviously some of the guys are curious--but then too, this particular rifle is a historic Schuetzen rifle.  maybe is like the guys going to an autorace---they're just waiting to see if I blow myself and a valuable antique up with my tinkering. Cheesy

I believe that the NMLRA has a few ''schuetzen" matches at their annual circus down at Friendship though I have yet to verify that.  I'm assuming its a basic 200 yd offhand match, whether the use "schuetzen-style" rifles or not I don't know---yet.   not sure I'm brave/dumb enough to show up in that crowd in high button shoes, vest and chain, and a bowler hat.

In some ways the ASSRA was started in reaction by a bunch of "Friendship guys" who wanted a chance to play with their old cartridge single shots and were not allowed to do so at Friendship.

However the ASSRA incorporates both collectors and shooters, and those who are serious about both.  Some members have collected older pre-cartridge schuetzen material, including a big share of the guns featured in the Hamilton/Rowe/et al book.  I imagine most would be somewhat reluctant to risk their investment grade originals by shooting them.  I'm a bit more irrational.  I may not shoot it a lot but I refuse to own a gun I can't shoot it I want to--even if it only for educational or exhibition p
« Last Edit: Dec 3rd, 2009 at 8:24pm by QuestionableMaynard8130 »  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #39 - Dec 3rd, 2009 at 7:59pm
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You didnt get beat up James, lol.  The thread did get a "red " period that seemed to kill the thread.  Ah but now we're rolling along with DWs help!

Six Months for a Pedersoli? Much too long a wait. 
 
I really think we should post and post about percussion Schutzen rifles till we take over the forum. Everyone will sell their cartridge rifles. Just think, no more brass problems, no primer shortage problems, no more smokeless powder problems. And the best part is it's okay to consume sausages and drink beer while shooting percussion Schutzen rifles. Thats how they did it in the old days. We could take all the money we get from our cartridge guns to build a Schutzen house with a big dance hall and a library a brewery and rooms upstairs for rent. Too much beer you go upstairs and crash. The possibility's are endless. I would like to be in charge of the trout ponds.

                 Joe.  Smiley

                                        

  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #40 - Dec 3rd, 2009 at 8:19pm
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Who's gonna run the "rooms upstairs"?  Shocked If we managed that right we wouldn't have to worry so much about a lot of other financial stuff  Grin
  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #41 - Dec 3rd, 2009 at 9:38pm
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'nother ???  for you schuetzen gurus.   I'm puzzled by the front sight.  first of all it was installed backwards. Ken Meyer pointed it out to me. the sight base has a little pointer dead center and the tic-mark in the barrel is in front of the sight.  the tic mark was on the back the way it was installed.  so I drove it out and reversed it.  also the cut out in the hood now is positioned to back light the fine pin so it is in sharper relief.

but what about the pins on the side of the hood?

here's the 1st of 2 pics

obviously taken before I turned the sight around
  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #42 - Dec 3rd, 2009 at 9:40pm
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and the other.  I just don't understand what those two little pins are for.  they don't protrude inside the hood.  could they have been used to attach a spirit level or something above the hood?  gotta redo that picture.  thats better. I had the tag wrong on it. You can see the opening in the hood, and even the little indicator point---all pointing 180 degrees wrong.
« Last Edit: Dec 3rd, 2009 at 10:28pm by QuestionableMaynard8130 »  

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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #43 - Dec 3rd, 2009 at 9:54pm
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Westerner/Joe, I didn't mean to put you off with my answer... I simply responded to what I thought was an attempt at humor.  DW had asked for help finding a specific bullet with a rather cryptic (to me, anyway) description earlier in the thread and on the WTB board.  I used my connections on the N-SSA board to try and locate one for him and apparently succeeded.  I still don't have more than a vague notion of what the bullet looks like because its very name seems to negate the description I have.  For more details, you'll have to ask our bold experimentalist DW, who found the design somewhere in his stash of old and varied memories and decided to try it for this application.

James, I'm sorry if you felt I was trying to discourage your interest in percussion schuetzen rifles in general or that one in particular... I think they are cool firearms and I'm shooting a lot of percussion stuff now myself, but in its own venue, not at ASSRA events that are held expressly to shoot single shot cartridge firearms (other than bolt action) designed between the American Civil War and World War I (and modern arms made in the spirit of the above.)  If somebody wants to organize a muzzle loading Schuetzen match, or a head to head muzzle and breech loading Schuetzen match, I'd probably be interested in shooting in it with you, but I wouldn't presume to tell the organizers to change the rules they were using so I could use my pet rifle (whatever it was.)

Joe again, I can't remember for sure where in the West you are located, but if there is trout fishing and shooting and rooms upstairs, not to mention beer downstairs, I will definitely count my shekels and try to attend your inaugural match and will be more than willing to shoot whatever type of rifle you specify, or stay home and not complain about what you are doing.  Be aware, however, that percussion caps are getting about as scarce and more expensive than primers (around here at least) so that may be important. 

Froggie
  
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Re: ML schuetzen resources
Reply #44 - Dec 4th, 2009 at 12:25am
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We promise not to change any rules right away. But eventually we will. 

If you want to shoot trap and skeet and drink beer and have dinner all at the same time there are ranges here in the PNW that still offer it. They're open to the public. Hard to believe huh? 

                                              Joe  Smiley

  

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