Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) stock finish (Read 6219 times)
tbird1960
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline


He shoulda armed himself.

Posts: 331
Location: Brazoria, Texas
Joined: Aug 14th, 2006
stock finish
Dec 22nd, 2008 at 5:27pm
Print Post  
Does anyone have a secret way of darkening the stripes in the grain of walnut before staining the stock?
Regards Bill
  

NRA Patron, Whittington Center Founders Club, Life Member TSRA, Life Member HGCA Distinguished Rifleman Badge #783
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mozark
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 63
Location: Mon. National Forest
Joined: May 1st, 2008
Re: stock finish
Reply #1 - Dec 22nd, 2008 at 5:55pm
Print Post  
A good piece of walnut shouldn't need any stain.

That being said, filling and darkening open grain is a seperate issue. I've been a cabinetmaker all of my adult life, and one of the oldest "secret" techniques to deal with open grain is to trowel (forcefully) gypsum (joint compound/spackle) into the grain. Sand, leaving the gypsum in the pores only. Flood the work with colorant. Old coffee works well. The gypsum will soak it up like there's no tomorrow. Sand again. This leaves color only in the pores, and the wood itself unadulterated by color. Apply finish. 

MM
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
westerner
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


deleted posts and threads
record holder.

Posts: 12221
Location: Why, out West of course
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: stock finish
Reply #2 - Dec 22nd, 2008 at 6:27pm
Print Post  
Or you could use super gawdy Maple like this. But then you gotta live with it like flames on yer Volvo.  Cheesy





                                         Joe.   Smiley
  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
thop
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 271
Joined: Jan 12th, 2008
Re: stock finish
Reply #3 - Dec 22nd, 2008 at 6:51pm
Print Post  
MM,

Please tell us more about the gypsum technique.  I assume we are talking about very minute quatities of gyspsum, depending on how open the pores are, but have you ever experienced any anomolies (cracking, checking, etc) of the finsh over time due to the difference in the expansion and contraction of the wood.?

Terry
  

thop
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff_Schultz
ASSRA Board Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1654
Location: Ransomville, NY
Joined: Apr 25th, 2004
Re: stock finish
Reply #4 - Dec 22nd, 2008 at 7:03pm
Print Post  
I'll bet it takes the edge off your checking tools.
  

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo

“There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse."

  Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
38_Cal
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2253
Location: Montezuma, Iowa
Joined: Apr 27th, 2005
Re: stock finish
Reply #5 - Dec 22nd, 2008 at 8:21pm
Print Post  
I'm sure it does, Jeff, but not as much or as quickly as the silica based fillers sold for stock grain filling.  (If you're in doubt about what's in a stock filler, ask the maker for a "MSDS", Material Safety Data Sheet.)  Fer instance, Herter's French Red filler has silica, but the stain does not.

David
Montezuma, IA
  

David Kaiser
Montezuma, IA
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Rooster
Ex Member


Re: stock finish
Reply #6 - Dec 22nd, 2008 at 9:20pm
Print Post  
Check out the walnut stocked guns on my website. If you see one you like I'll try and remember how I did it.
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff_Schultz
ASSRA Board Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1654
Location: Ransomville, NY
Joined: Apr 25th, 2004
Re: stock finish
Reply #7 - Dec 22nd, 2008 at 9:29pm
Print Post  
Mighty nice work Rooster.
  

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo

“There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse."

  Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Quarter_Bore
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 817
Location:   
Joined: Dec 16th, 2005
Re: stock finish
Reply #8 - Dec 22nd, 2008 at 9:51pm
Print Post  
I think the Wolfgang Haga rifle ca. 1765, and the Klette Rifles are my favorites. Very nice work.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
40_Rod
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Extremism in the persuit
of accuracy is not a
vice

Posts: 4285
Location: Knoxville, TN
Joined: Apr 20th, 2004
Re: stock finish
Reply #9 - Dec 23rd, 2008 at 8:40am
Print Post  
Pilkingtons makes a tinted stock rubbing oil. Rub it in lightly the dark (soft) grain will soak it up faster. After you let it sit for a short while rub it down with a soft cloth. this will keep more from soaking into the lighter (harder) wood.

40 Rod
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Old-Win
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1808
Location: Minnesota
Joined: Nov 24th, 2005
Re: stock finish
Reply #10 - Dec 23rd, 2008 at 6:28pm
Print Post  
There are many ways to do this.  First you need to decide what look you want your wood to have.  For example, if you want your wood to look like the finish on old figured Winchester wood, you will need to apply two different stains.  First is a wiping stain which will make the figure come out.  An example is one that .38 cal mentions called Herter's French Red.  A wiping stain has a pigmented filler in it that will make the figure come out and fill the pores about 80%.  It used to be sold by the old Herter's company (guide proven and world tested) and is still being duplicated and sold through Brownell's.  I have not tried the new stuff as I still have supply of the original but it was (is) probably made by the same company and just repackaged and yes it does take the life out of checkering tools a little faster.  I usually need a new cutter for every panel but they are cheap.  Once it is dry, then you can add a very dilute mix of a water stain to give it that warm golden look.  Brownell's sells some excellent water stains that you can mix to suit your needs.  The two most common ones that I use are a combination of Resorcin Brown and Orange II concentrate.  Minwax also makes wiping stains that I use occasionally but they don't have the silica filler.  After you've achieved your desired color, then you need to apply the proper finish.  For this type of coloring, you almost exclusively have to use a finish that builds up and forms a top coating such as Birchwood Casey's Tru-Oil.  This will make the grain jump out and change figure as you move the stock.  Keep in mind that wiping stains will give the wood a muddied look but most old American high grade guns were finished in this fashion.  Also, wiping stains don't penetrate the wood very deeply and you have to be very careful so that you don't sand through it as you build your finish.  In my estimation, this is the best way to finish American walnut and have it look old.  
You can use water stains exclusively and I dilute them quite a bit so that I can control how much goes on and where it goes to get the desired look.  It may raise the grain again in areas so you will have to resand some spots but this is an easy method to control.  Water stains will penetrate the wood more than wiping stains
Another way to go at it is to use the newer NGR's or non grain raising dyes.  These penetrate the wood more deeply and you have to be very careful as a little goes a long ways.  I will dilute mine with alcohol or Behlen's Solar-lux reducer so that I can apply several light coats to get the effect I want.  Behlen's and Laurel Mountain Forge are a couple that come to mind.  I don't use them very often, because they don't produce the colors that I am looking for.  Each piece of wood is unique to itself and you may have to try several to achieve what you are looking for.  I probably have 10-15 bottles of water stains mixed in various ways and numerous cans of wiping stains along with a half dozen or so NGR's and I'll do something different every time.  To me, a good figured piece of American walnut must be stained to bring out all its glory or it will take on a dead look.
If your working with the English walnut, then stick with a water stain or NGR to even it out or give it a littler reddish look if you desire.  English walnut should be finished with a penetrating finish that doesn't build up on the wood.  Some good ones are produced by LMF, Pro Custom Oil and Dembart.  LMF calls theirs Permalyn.  You can actually get by with just the sealer for a finish.  The regular finish dries too fast in my estimation and is harder to work with.  I add about 15% boiled linseed oil to it to slow down drying time.  If you desire to mix a little oil in your finish, make sure that the oil you are using is compatabile with the finish. That is linseed oil to a linseed based finish and tung oil to a tung based finish.  Also, a lot of finishes now days, advertised as tung oil do not have much actual tung oil in them.  While using these finishes on English walnut gives the desired look, I still have water spotting when it rains.  Cry  Hope this helps and I'm sure there are lots of other good ways to do this besides what I have written here.  Bob
As a P.S. I just remembered another stain that I really liked when working on my last muzzleloader and it's called TransTint.  Spendy and lots of different colors to buy but worked well on maple along with some other water stain.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
westerner
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


deleted posts and threads
record holder.

Posts: 12221
Location: Why, out West of course
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: stock finish
Reply #11 - Dec 24th, 2008 at 4:32pm
Print Post  
Old-Win wrote on Dec 23rd, 2008 at 6:28pm:
 To me, a good figured piece of American walnut must be stained to bring out all its glory or it will take on a dead look.



Great post Bob and I sure do agree with this statement.   Wink


                         Joe.

  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tbird1960
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline


He shoulda armed himself.

Posts: 331
Location: Brazoria, Texas
Joined: Aug 14th, 2006
Re: stock finish
Reply #12 - Dec 25th, 2008 at 1:07pm
Print Post  
Thanks for the info fellas. I will give that Herter's French Red a try. I have tried about everything and nothing I am really satisfied with. I think walnut need to be stained also, at least to acquire the coloring I like personally.
  

NRA Patron, Whittington Center Founders Club, Life Member TSRA, Life Member HGCA Distinguished Rifleman Badge #783
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ol_Deuce
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 343
Location: Billings,Montana
Joined: Nov 19th, 2008
Re: stock finish
Reply #13 - Dec 27th, 2008 at 12:57am
Print Post  
What a piece of wood
  

Do The Best With What You Got !!!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint