Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Experienced Advice Needed (Read 7253 times)
ernierodbp
Ex Member


Experienced Advice Needed
Aug 22nd, 2008 at 12:05pm
Print Post  
    I am in the process of researching for a custom made SS  rifle. I have chosen a 45-70 for the caliber. I will be using the rifle for bench rest development (varying powders,bullets and various parameters) and informal target shooting/800yd so I will be striving for MOA  accuracy. The makers of these guns will offer different brands of barrels. From the forums,I get the impression that Badger bbls are excellent. I will be using predominantly lead bullets. I've been given a choice of Douglas,Shilen and one other. The other question is length. I prefer 28" to 30"  Opinion needed in this area too. I had hoped for a finished rifle of 9lbs  to 10lbs. Any insite you can offer me on these two factors will be greatly appreciated.Tnx  Erod
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Brent
Ex Member


Re: Experienced Advice Needed
Reply #1 - Aug 22nd, 2008 at 12:14pm
Print Post  
Badgers are okay.  But a Krieger, Lilja, and maybe a few others might be better for what you have in mind.  I prefer a 32" length, 28 being quite too short in my opinion and 34" a tad too long.   

For a bench rest. 45-70, 9-10 lbs is too light by half.  Shoot for 13-15 lbs.
9-10 is a hunting rifle.

Brent
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
J.D.Steele
Ex Member


Re: Experienced Advice Needed
Reply #2 - Aug 22nd, 2008 at 12:38pm
Print Post  
I've basically quit using Shilens. Douglas is a better buy IMO but of course still a mid- to low-priced barrel.

For Black Powder, IMO anything longer than 28"-30" will frequently cause extra fouling problems. That last few inches (over 28") of barrel reminds me of NASCAR racing at Darlington; the extra 100 mi in the Darlington 600 is like a whole 'nother/extra race and has been the downfall of many a 500-mi-point leader!

For Smokeless I dunno. But heavier is always better in the bigger bores.
Good luck, Joe
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FITZ
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


REGARDS

Posts: 917
Location: MASSACHUSETTS
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Experienced Advice Needed
Reply #3 - Aug 22nd, 2008 at 9:02pm
Print Post  
A 9 to 10 lb 45-70 with 800 yd loads will cure you of that real quick. I have an 11 lb Borchardt in 45 x 2 7/8", with Postell bullets at 535 gr and a case full of Fg Black it is downright unpleasant to shoot. Shoots excellently at 1000 yds for about 6 to 8 shots and then starts to go bad.
Actually it is the shooter who goes bad, recoil is tremendous. Rethink either the caliber or the weight. Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

FITZ
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tenx
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 385
Joined: Feb 23rd, 2008
Re: Experienced Advice Needed
Reply #4 - Aug 22nd, 2008 at 10:33pm
Print Post  
I will agree with the others in that a 9 - 10 lb. rifle is way to light, especially if you're gonna be doing quite a bit of bench shooting. I will assume your 800 yd. shooting will also be bench or cross sticks. I'd look at a rifle in the 12-14 lb. class and even heavier since you won't be lugging it around. When I was working with my .45/70 I'd shoot 25 to 30 rds. a day, five days a week. I appreciated the 13 lbs. that rifle weighed, and when working at the max. load level with 525 gr. bullets, I wished it weighed more.

  When working up my 12 lb. double rifle I regulated it for the 330 gr. Gould HP. To regulate it needed to be gotten up to a tad over 2000 fps. Believe me it was not a pleasant experience.

  For a barrel Badger's are very good but the last I heard you had to wait almost forever to get one. My Kreiger barrel came in a little under 12 weeks. Between that and Lilja, plus one or two other makers, you'll be getting as good a barrel as it's possible to make. You won't regret the extra money either!

  If you'll be shooting a lot of BP then barrel length becomes a factor. This is to be sure you get a complete burn. In the 100 gr. area a 32" to 34" barrel would be about right. I never thought of this till I had my .45/70 converted over to .50/90SS. The barrel maker.... Ron Snover..... put me wise to this. If you just plan on using the standard(?) 70 gr. of BP charge, or a little more, then a 30" barrel will be about right.

  If you'll be using smokeless mostly then a 30" barrel will be more than sufficient. The double rifle mentioned above has 28" barrels, but I only use it with smokeless.

PETE
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ernierodbp
Ex Member


Re: Experienced Advice Needed
Reply #5 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 12:08pm
Print Post  
Thanks for good advice-recoil from a bench rest is probably annoying with heavy 500yds+  loads in 45-70. I am going to consider 38-55  and 40-65  instead.Realistically,I probably won't  shoot beyond  500yds very often. Will also consider heavier rifle too. Any opinion on those two calibers??  Thanks for kind help. Erod
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tenx
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 385
Joined: Feb 23rd, 2008
Re: Experienced Advice Needed
Reply #6 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 3:51pm
Print Post  
Either of those calibers would be ok up to a point. If you plan on doing most of your shooting..... after load development...... at 500 yds. then I'd go with the .40/65. The .38/55 will work ok out to 500 yds., or 600 meters, as some Shilouette shooters will attest to. But the .40/65 would be better, altho I'm not sure how it would hold up at 800 yds..

  If you plan on doing most of your shooting at, say, 200 yds. or less then I'd highly recommend you rethink your choice and go with the .32/40. For Lead bullet shooting this is considered the best, if you wish to stick with traditional calibers.

  There is no such thing as the perfect rifle for all ranges. Recoil and it's attendant fatigue factor do not make for best accuracy. The .40/65 will be a better bet at 500 yds. than the .32/40. As the .32/40 will be better at 200 yds.

  If you will keep an eye on the match results in The Journal you'll soon see the truth in this. The bigger calibers can win but seldom do at the shorter ranges.

  So, it just comes down to what you want to do the most and go with the cal. most suited. I know this is not what you'd like to hear but I'd hate to see you spend money on a custom rifle and not be happy with it in the long term.

PETE
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
podufa
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 182
Location: Maine
Joined: Dec 30th, 2007
Re: Experienced Advice Needed
Reply #7 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 4:49pm
Print Post  
You should read a prior post on this forum, "Which rifle / caliber for first-timer". It has some good advice.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bad_Ass_Wallace
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 150
Location: Kingaroy, Australia
Joined: Jul 29th, 2005
Re: Experienced Advice Needed
Reply #8 - Aug 24th, 2008 at 6:47pm
Print Post  
Quote:
Thanks for good advice-recoil from a bench rest is probably annoying with heavy 500yds+  loads in 45-70. I am going to consider 38-55  and 40-65  instead.Realistically,I probably won't  shoot beyond  500yds very often. Will also consider heavier rifle too. Any opinion on those two calibers??  Thanks for kind help. Erod


Why not look to the new Pedersoli Highwall 38/55 with fast twist 1:12" barrel. This should shoot the long 335gn 38's to 800yards with low recoil.
  

Hold still varmint; while I plugs yer!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paul_F.
Ex Member


Re: Experienced Advice Needed
Reply #9 - Aug 24th, 2008 at 7:06pm
Print Post  
I would second that suggestion (The Pedersoli .38-55 High Wall) if it were not for the limited number trickling in..

Cherry's Fine Guns is SO FAR the only importer that has orderered any...
They got FOUR rifles, and sold out immediately.
The next batch of FIVE rifles hasn't arrived yet, and is already sold out.

The batch after THAT isn't due to arrive in the US until DECEMBER at the earliest.
This is from a phone call last week to Cherry's to order a .38-55 for myself.

Right now, after waiting since APRIL for them to actually be available, I'm more than a bit discouraged from the Pedersoli, and am investigating just building on a C. Sharps action, or having C. Sharps build it for me.  It will cost me more than the Pedersoli (but not THAT much more given the Pedersoli's price tag).. but at this point, I might be able to get  a more predicable delivery time.

The specs of the Pedersoli, and their quality, had me holding out for one of theirs over the Uberti since the begining of the year (I was ready to order the Uberti in January, but held off when I heard Pedersoli was announcing one at the SHOT show).

Oh, and back to the original topic..

I was faced with a simillar choice, and have chosen the .38-55 for our local up-to 550 yard Quigley-type matches.   I have a .45-70 Italian Repro Sharps, and I found the recoil unpleasant... and a couple local shooters related their frustrations getting the .40-65 to shoot (I'm just the messenger on that...)..   I liked the "all around" features of the .38-55.  Good from 200 yards (my primary purpose), to the 550 yard line (my secondary purpose).

Paul F.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Old-Win
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1741
Location: Minnesota
Joined: Nov 24th, 2005
Re: Experienced Advice Needed
Reply #10 - Aug 26th, 2008 at 12:26pm
Print Post  
Erod,  I chuckled when I read your title, "Experienced Advice Needed."  You opened yourself up to so much advice that you won't know which direction to go.  Seems like there's plenty of advise and the way this forum is going lately with all the "contrarians", and me feeling a little bit gnarly today I thought I might as well get in too.  
First, you can be the best judge of what you want.  By that I mean, let the winners circle tell you.  Get some past issues of BPCN or ASSRJ and look at what's winning.  Example,  When somebody tells you that this barrel is better than another, it's a crock in my book.  I went back in some BPCN magazines and looked at what is winning in some different events throughout the country and here's what I found.  In one Pennsylavania shoot, the first two places where Pedersolis, 3rd a Grn Mtn and fourth a Getz.  Of the first 10 places, 4 where Badgers 2 Gn Mtns, 2 Ped, 1 Getz and one Shiloh.  In another Pennsylvannia shoot, 1st place was a Snover, next 8 of nine where Badgers.  8 were 45 cal. and 2 where 40's.  At a Michigan mid-range shoot, 4 out of the first five where Badgers and one Shiloh.
At another shoot in Avenal California, 1st was a Shiloh, 2nd a Badger and 3rd a Douglas.  Of the next 7 places, 4 were Badgers, 2 Grn Mtn and 1 Shiloh.  Of those top 10, 8 where 45's, 1 a 44 and 1 a 40 cal.  These are just some I quickly gleaned so for somebody to say that one barrel is better, I say take it with a grain of salt.  
Here's more examples of advice that one gets on the internet.  When I first started shooting, nobody could get PP to work and now it seems to be the bee's knees.  Same with the wiping technique.  Nobody could get consistency and now all of a sudden, it's back and many are doing well with it.
Barrel length is another issue.  Everybody has an idea.  Long, short, fat and stubby.  I know that I have barrels from 30" - 34" and I have yet to experience fouling at the end of the bore in any of them even though I was told never to go over 30".  Maybe its a western USA phenomena.   Smiley  
Don't start chasing your tail over what others are doing.   You be your own best judge and build what you want.  Build it around the discipline that you want it for because this sport is contagious and before long you'll want another.  Watch what the consistant winners are shooting and I can say that I have observed this with regularity; 45's rule and the heavier rifle the better it is.  Also, you don't see the mini's with fast twists near the top very often but I do see more of them coming up for sale.  Oh, yeah, good shooters just don't sell their tack drivers.   Wink  Have fun!  Bob
« Last Edit: Aug 26th, 2008 at 5:42pm by Old-Win »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
j sells
Full Member
***
Offline


Life is too short to rush

Posts: 115
Location: Charleston
Joined: Mar 13th, 2007
Re: Experienced Advice Needed
Reply #11 - Aug 26th, 2008 at 5:56pm
Print Post  
I would have to agree with Ole Win on the barrel issue. You can get a lemon in any one but as a rule most of the modern manufactured barrels are better shooters than the nut behind the trigger. Installation is as important as the barrel. Jerry
  

Jerry
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint