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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) SUGGESTIONS WANTED FOR WICKLIFFE RIFLE (Read 20091 times)
tom_ondrus
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SUGGESTIONS WANTED FOR WICKLIFFE RIFLE
Jul 17th, 2008 at 11:05am
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We are seeking suggestions for ways to improve the looks of our action to make it more
pleasing to assra shooters.

we cannot change some things, others we can.

if you would care to make a suggestion we will listen.

i hope this thread will not be taken over with childish remarks and cheap shots..

we are honestly seeking input ideas

thanks in advance for your contributions.

Tom Ondrus 
Wickliffe '76 (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Just to end any confusion we build in in batches of 10 actions at a time
  
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irish66
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Re: SUGGESTIONS WANTED FOR WICKLIFFE RIFLE
Reply #1 - Jul 17th, 2008 at 12:44pm
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tom,
I see a lot of slight variations but what about some method of a through the stock draw bolt like the ballards?, leave the top tang and possibly make the lower longer for pistol grip.
not having looked at the rest of the parts block etc how easy are they to take appart?
irish
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: SUGGESTIONS WANTED FOR WICKLIFFE RIFLE
Reply #2 - Jul 17th, 2008 at 1:24pm
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My opinion only; (of course).

Avoid any stamping/printing on the receiver sides. Use the tang(s) or the top of the reciever for that, and leave the nice wide sides for engraving if a builder so chooses. Or for a nice expanse of color case.

Unlike some others, I don't have much problem with the shape of the receiver.

I would be inclined to make that top tang a permanent part of the design, shaped, angled, drilled and tapped for some pre-existing standard for Soule type rear sight. For example; angle, shape, and D&T to use a High Wall or Sharps 1874 rear sight, rather than re-invent the wheel for all the sight manufacturers.

I don't recall the exploded diagram, but if that lower tang is removable/replaceable, I second the suggestion to have a curved "pistol grip" variation if practicle to do so.

I may PM you later regarding some details...

Paul F.

( I emailed you a couple questions at the address on your profile...)
« Last Edit: Jul 17th, 2008 at 1:51pm by »  
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trev
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Re: SUGGESTIONS WANTED FOR WICKLIFFE RIFLE
Reply #3 - Jul 17th, 2008 at 9:32pm
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That "pigtail" lever could be cleaned up pretty well, though it would mean either casting new ones, or fabbing some new levers and grafting them on.

A little wider, and flatter, is better looking, to my eye, than the round and too skinny looking lever that I saw in the pictures.

Lettering, on the sides of the actions, is a PITA to get correctly even, if you are CNC cutting it, on a milling machine, unless you are doing the engraving in the same set-up as the machining of the flat. I've spent far too much of my life tweaking a setup with a dial test indicator, to think that THAT is a good way to spend ones life.

Cheers
  Trev
  
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J.D.Steele
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Re: SUGGESTIONS WANTED FOR WICKLIFFE RIFLE
Reply #4 - Jul 17th, 2008 at 10:10pm
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A) no lettering of any type on the sides

B) thinned panels in the action sidewalls, a la high wall thinside

C) fatter receiver bottom front to minimize the protruding lever pin boss

D) set trigger capability

E) top tang for tang sight

Good luck, Joe
  
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tom_ondrus
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Re: SUGGESTIONS WANTED FOR WICKLIFFE RIFLE
Reply #5 - Jul 18th, 2008 at 12:16am
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I'M GETTING READY TO LEAVE FOR THE BIG GUNSHOW FRIDAY MORNING SO THIS WILL BE BRIEF.

Irish - we do have a through bolt that holds the stock on.

i agree the bottom tang could be extended to the end of the pistolgrip. we would cut and weld. it is too expensive to make new molds .

the top tang is an option right now. maybe in future we can incorporate it into a new mold design, along with the long pg.  now we weld it in. it is nicely done but expensive and we don't have the angle right , plus its too thick.

so we have lots of room for improvements !

the ATF said we had to put the model number on the receivers entered on our books.  and the only alternatives we had was hand stamp them (yuk ) or have done on a cnc machine, which we did.

i agree totally with flat clean sides. the few made with side markings may be collectors items someday

when i'm back next week i will print out all your suggestions and reply to them here. ( i'm not too hot on the lever shape either !

sorry, i did not get any e mails . please resend to :

ftondrus@hotmail.com       thanks, tom
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: SUGGESTIONS WANTED FOR WICKLIFFE RIFLE
Reply #6 - Jul 18th, 2008 at 12:22am
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Email re-sent to that address.

Oh, and FYI;  I highly recommend registering a domain-name, and arraning for a web-hosting package with an email server.
It appears unprofessional to run even a small operation as a part-timer using one of the "free" email services like Hotmail or even Gmail (which is more highly thought of than the "king of spam" hotmail).  You'd be looking at maybe $50 a year. Well worth it if you're pursueing respectability.   

You could be "Tom@WickliffeRifles.com"  Smiley

Paul F.
  
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Brent
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Re: SUGGESTIONS WANTED FOR WICKLIFFE RIFLE
Reply #7 - Jul 18th, 2008 at 7:28am
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 On the other hand, there is quite a bunch of folks that have been clamoring for a Borchardt and yet a very limited means of obtaining one.  Were I you, I would consider making Borchardts and forget about W rifles.

Brent
« Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2008 at 2:29pm by Jim_Borton »  
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1878
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Re: SUGGESTIONS WANTED FOR WICKLIFFE RIFLE
Reply #8 - Jul 18th, 2008 at 8:42am
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Now, now Brent, be nice.  You do raise an interesting point though.  In the 1970's there was an investment cast Borchardt action from Indiana.  I think the company was called Artistic Arms.  I have only ever seen one action, Frank Z had one several years ago.  I wonder where the tooling for those is?
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Re: SUGGESTIONS WANTED FOR WICKLIFFE RIFLE
Reply #9 - Jul 18th, 2008 at 8:41pm
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Is there a reason the model designation required couldn't be on the top of the receiver instead of the side? It could be smaller and engraved on the ring above the chamber, or the top tang.
  
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tom_ondrus
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Re: SUGGESTIONS WANTED FOR WICKLIFFE RIFLE
Reply #10 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:44pm
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hi, just back from the gunshow and really pooped.

the WICKLIFFE is approved for bpcr competition.

i understand that a MODERN RIFLE  may not be appealing to traditionalists. i'll bet when they were introduced the sharps, ballards, rollers and hi walls etc had a lot of NAY SAYERS  who didn't want to give up their muzzloaders !

we are working to improve the looks to make our action more acceptable to the bpcr fraternity.

we had to put the lettering on the side of a few actions we had on our books - atf said so. there were only 5 or 6 done that way.


here is the first one we had case colored. it was done by hoffman restorations in springboro , ohio
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our stock is held on by a through bolt.

we are working at resculpting the action to improve the appearance.

it will take a little time to try different things, so please bear with us.

more replies tomorrow.
  
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Brent
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Re: SUGGESTIONS WANTED FOR WICKLIFFE RIFLE
Reply #11 - Jul 21st, 2008 at 7:40am
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The color looks pretty good.   

And my apologies about the BPCR legality issue.  I presumed that such modern actions were disallowed, with the exception of CPA.  I see there is another.   

Still think a Borchardt would be more marketable.  But it is your money.

Good luck,
Brent
  
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trev
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Re: SUGGESTIONS WANTED FOR WICKLIFFE RIFLE
Reply #12 - Jul 21st, 2008 at 8:24am
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Y'know, the issue of looks, is really not a HUGE issue, if the rifles are available and will shoot.

Being BPCR legal, gives it some appeal to them what want something a little different.

I would venture to say that, with the number of Sharps guns out there, that looks are not the only thing that makes a rifle saleable.

I like the looks of the case color.

That lever in the picture looks like an effort was made to not have it turn out like the old originals. Trick of the eye in the picture, or is it wider?

Cheers
   Trev
  
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Bruce_S
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Re: SUGGESTIONS WANTED FOR WICKLIFFE RIFLE
Reply #13 - Jul 21st, 2008 at 6:13pm
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Get rid of the big hump and make it look more like a High Wall or Low Wall....add Radius and blend.

Add a stepped flat on a sweeping arc...........then add more radius around the bolt head to make the new surface look smaller.

No-BS
  
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38_Cal
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Re: SUGGESTIONS WANTED FOR WICKLIFFE RIFLE
Reply #14 - Jul 21st, 2008 at 6:41pm
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And add a top tang at a suitable angle and drilled & tapped for either a Winchester, Sharps or Ballard tang sight.

David
Montezuma, IA
  

David Kaiser
Montezuma, IA
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