Pope type barrel clamps are leagal. It would probably be best to read the rules about some of the combinations that aren't. I know, for instance, that front and back rests can not be held together with anything other then being on the same bench surface. As to whether they help or not is a matter of opinion. I think it is safe to say that most don't use them.

Phil,

  I've used a Pope style rest for years and wouldn't be without it.

  The main reason I use it is to keep the gun on the same level plane from shot to shot. If you have a ballistic program you will see that the trajectory can have quite an arc to it. If you are off a few thousandths when you bring the gun onto the target that will just add the your "group" size.

  With iron sights it's even more of a must because lining up an aperture front and rear sight doesn't give you any reference as to whether you're "square" in relation to the last shot. A lot of horizontal dispersion attributed to the wind and mirage can actually be not having the sights "level".

  How many times have you lined your sights up and said that's good enuf? Might be, but with the Pope rest it's one of those things you don't have to think about. You can spend your time thinking about the conditions for the next shot rather than making sure the crosshairs are still in line.

  Also one thing many don't think about is the effect mirage has on the sight picture. If your gun is not solid many people will not know that the mirage has "moved" the sights over and will correct them. With the Pope rest you can basically line up the gun and not touch it after your sights are on so you know that if your sights aren't on the bull something must be influencing what you're seeing.

PETE

Phil,

  This is true. I've done a lot of experimenting with various barrel lengths and wgt.'s and found you will USUALLY find a good "node" between 6" & 6 1/2". I start out with the front of the "sled" at 6 3/8" from the muzzle and have only rarely had to change from this.

  Since I use the same "sled" on more than one rifle I will take a piece of black electricians tape and put it around the barrel at the front edge of the "sled".

  Round barrels, as you can imagine are the hardest to set up so that when you do a vertical adjustment you also don't have to also do some horizontal. I use the side of the frame to align the vertical and then make sure the base of the "sled" is 90 deg.'s from that.

  Stacking two 200 yd. targets above each other I can raise/drop my front rest from one to the other with no more than a click or two to get the horizontal. Considering human error I think this is about as close as you'll get.

PETE

38_Cal,

  What you say is true, but supposing you are using original equipment that isn't equipped with a bubble level?

  But, lets also look at what you're saying. You have shot in the past at Pine Ridge (where've you been anyway?) and you know the wind switches on half a seconds notice as I'm sure it does at most ranges. Plus you can have several flags spaced out down range and none of them pointing in the same direction.

  Now you've got this bubble level installed on your front sight. I'm sure you've noticed how they seem to wander off if you don't pay strict attention. You wiggle the rear bag (bad practice anyway but we all do it). Better check that bubble level again. Oops! Missed that perfect condition again!

Now you have to watch that bubble level and the wind at the same time making absolutely sure you catch the same condition for each shot and the bubble is lined up exactly. Considering the level is out on the end of the barrel this can be hard to get set exactly. Not a problem with a "sled".

  I will assume you're much better at keeping track of all this than I am so maybe this is easy for you. I look at a "sled" as something that takes this leveling process out of the equation and allows me to concentrate on other things I consider more important.

  I assume by platform you mean the front rest?? If so that is leveled up before I even fire a shot. Both fore and aft. It has windage and elevation adjustments to take care of moving from bull to bull. With a properly set up "sled" everything is square to the world for every shot.

  If you've used a sled and kept your eyes open as the shot goes off you'll notice the "sled" rise off the table at each shot. With a .38/55 this is quite noticeable. With just a bubble level on your front sight you will have to re-position the level for the next shot. With the "sled" all you do is push the gun back into battery and you're all set for the next shot. Battery of course is the pin the notch in the "sled" goes against so the gun is placed exactly the same fore and aft on your front rest and rear bag and will usually put the sights dead on to the bull. With a scope it can be amazing how close this is. So just a slight twitch of the front adjustments and you're good to go. Saves that few seconds you might need to catch that "perfect" condition again.

  The "sled" is not a cure all for good shooting.... as you know. Just a "tool" to help you and to make things easier. Us old guys need all the help we can get.

  So I hope you and everyone else I shoot against forgets I said all this.  I'd hate to have it come back and haunt me at some future match like a lot of tips I've given out that are making it hard for me to win anymore!

  Hope to see you at Pine Ridge again one of these days. 

PETE

30_Cal,

  I see I mis-understood what you were getting at. You've covered the coupla points I missed, and with both explanations Phil ought to be able to decide whether he wants to try a "sled" or not.

  Can I assume this shop you're going to set up is a gun shop and based in Monty?

  Sorry to hear about your other problems, either self-induced  or otherwise. Have been meaning for some time to come down and see you and at the same time check out Brownells range. Hear it's quite a place.

PETE

38_Cal,

  Well let us know when you're ready and maybe I can get down and visit and "critique" your operation.

  It took 20 yrs. to get tired of your jokes???? Man! You must quite bunch of them if it took that long. 

PETE

The very very best one, bar none, is made by Skip Epp, if you can talk him into selling you one.  They are gorgeous and much better made than the brass "pope" version.  They are also quite a bit wider, he makes them 4" and 6".  Much less torque as a result.  The 4" is great on a .22 and the 6" is great on anything bigger.   

Brent