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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Ballard barrel length (Read 7757 times)
mwhite49
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Ballard barrel length
Dec 17th, 2007 at 10:20am
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Hi, I have a question regarding Ballard barrel length on a Ballard Pacific. I have an early Pacific with the barrel running straight octagon into the reciever. The barrel is only 22"inches long. It only has one thimble for the cleaning rod under the barrel. In holding it up to my other Pacific all the spacing is the same as compared to where the front site is located, rear sight placement, serial number etc. It could be a cut down model or a special order. What makes me believe that it could be a special order is that has English walnut stocks that match the same serial number as the reciever, in fact all the numbers on the rifle match. It is in 45-70 also.
I finaly got ahold of John Dutcher this past Saturday and we talked in length about it. He said that he personaly had held a Pacific that he knew was all original with a 24"inch barrel and one at the other extreme of being built with a 34 or 36 inch barrel. But he could shed no light on this one due to a lack of official records.
But given the extreme barrel lenght differences that he has seen it is possible. If it was done by a gunsmith years ago it must have been done when the rifle was almost new. This rifle came from a family in Alaska from a prospector/trapper and was carried by him. The rifle still has an excellent bore and is shootable. Any opinions or thoghts on this appreciated.
Mike
Mike
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Ballard barrel length
Reply #1 - Dec 17th, 2007 at 10:34am
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With the cooperative nature of gunmakers of the time, I would NOT say that it was not original, but with the passage of time, the location where  that rifle spent its early days, and the lack of factory records to check, I would not put a lot of faith in its factory originality either.

That said, it's a neat piece with a provenance you can cite, and probably a great deal of usefulness with that short barrel.  I sure would be proud to own one like it!

Regards,
Froggie

PS  Have you talked to Mike Petrov yet?  If it's in Alaska and about rifles, he probably knows it if it's worth knowing.
  
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mwhite49
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Re: Ballard barrel length
Reply #2 - Dec 17th, 2007 at 11:37am
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Froggie, where can I get in touch with him at?
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Ballard barrel length
Reply #3 - Dec 17th, 2007 at 2:35pm
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Mike,

    Michael Petrov posts on this board from time to time, but I can't recall for sure what his screen name is.  Perhaps if you did a "Calling Michael Petrov" post on General he would see it and respond.  Since he's up there and I'm way over here in VA, I'm afraid that's the best I can offer.

Froggie
  
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AkMike
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Re: Ballard barrel length
Reply #4 - Dec 17th, 2007 at 3:56pm
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IIRC he logs in as "MP". He lives just down the road from me. Try a PM to him. If not I'll get ahold of him for you.
  
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Brent
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Re: Ballard barrel length
Reply #5 - Dec 17th, 2007 at 4:24pm
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I can't say anything to help you directly but I have a .45-70 Pacific that is 29" or 29.5"  I don't remember.  Careful examination shows nothing to indicate that this barrel has been set back at the breech or at the muzzle, so we believe it is orignal in that way and it all numbers correctly.  So, odd sizes seem to be reasonable for this rifle. 

Brent
  
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AkMike
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Re: Ballard barrel length
Reply #6 - Dec 17th, 2007 at 6:17pm
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I don't know if it'll help or hurt but both of mine are 30". 1 is a 38-55 and the other is a 40-63.
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!
Re: Ballard barrel length
Reply #7 - Dec 17th, 2007 at 9:04pm
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It's really moot point, as Froggie said. No records, and no way to prove or disprove either way. Careful examination is the only way to even make an educated guess on whether a Ballard could be correct in whatever length it's barrel is.
Some things to consider, which may assist you in determining if it's all OK. 
First, every Ballard I have in my collection, (and every one I've ever measured) was in even inches. That's multiples of 2" increments. 
Second, Ballard barrels are always within thousandths of an inch of even lengths, unlike their Marlin repeaters, which generally run 1/4"-3/16" over the even measurements i.e-26 3/16" vs. a Ballard at exactly 26".
Finally, Marlin Ballard barrels keep a pretty consistent diameter at the muzzle and the receiver, so if a barrel was factory made at any length for a certain weight, both ends would be the correct measurement across the flats, regardless of length. I've seen some shorter barrels, and they don't end up looking like little Bull barrels just because they are short.
So far a 24" is the shortest one I've ever seen, and it's sitting in my safe. It's also a very light weight barrel in contour.
  
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mwhite49
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Re: Ballard barrel length
Reply #8 - Dec 17th, 2007 at 9:30pm
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Is the one setting in your safe a Pacific? And if it is are there one or two thimbles to carry the cleaning rod? 
Michael Petrov did get ahold of me and I called him. I'll post pictures soon, with christmas and all I'm not sure when but soon.
Thanks
Mike
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!
Re: Ballard barrel length
Reply #9 - Dec 17th, 2007 at 10:20pm
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No, the 24" Ballard I own is not a Pacific.-Vall
  
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FEB
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Re: Ballard barrel length
Reply #10 - Dec 20th, 2007 at 10:04pm
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Marlinguy,

Does your observation of Ballard barrels being in even 2 inch increments apply just to Marlin Ballards?  I have a Ball & Williams that appears to be unmodified original and it has a 24 3/8 inch octagon barrel.  When I talked with John Dutcher about it, he said that the odd length was nothing unusual.

FEB
  
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mwhite49
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Re: Ballard barrel length
Reply #11 - Dec 21st, 2007 at 12:40am
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On all of the Ballard rifles that I have seen or held in the last 30 years the majority were at 30", but I remember one that was a special order at 34" with English walnut and checkering too. I do not remember what model it was now. My Pacific barrel has the crown finished as if it built that way by Marlin, most gunsmiths when they cut a barrel have there own method for finishing this off and it rarley turns out looking like an original factory job. I know the barrel blue on mine is original and it is the same all the way up to the end of the barrel, and no vise marks anywhere on it. And then the other factor is the end is finished exactly as my other pacific is. If it is an alter rifle I would be suprised and if so it must have been completed when the rifle was near new or new. 
Thanks you all for your opinions and help and recommendations. You are a great bunch of fellows.
Mike
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!
Re: Ballard barrel length
Reply #12 - Dec 21st, 2007 at 8:17pm
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Quote:
Marlinguy,

Does your observation of Ballard barrels being in even 2 inch increments apply just to Marlin Ballards?  I have a Ball & Williams that appears to be unmodified original and it has a 24 3/8 inch octagon barrel.  When I talked with John Dutcher about it, he said that the odd length was nothing unusual.

FEB


Just Marlin or JM Marlin Ballards. I don't have much experience with pre-Marlin Ballards.
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!
Re: Ballard barrel length
Reply #13 - Dec 21st, 2007 at 8:21pm
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Marlins, and Marlin Ballards were finish crowned by hand. The barrels were parted at the crown on a lathe, but not clear through to the bore. The stub was left on the barrel, until all the finishing processes were complete, and then the stub was broken off. 
At this point the crown was filed flat to remove the burr, and a slight chamfer was done to the bore. The edges were pretty straight and sharp, (usually just slightly broken by hand) plus there was no finish on the end.
I've got Ballards in 24", 26", 28", 30" 32" and 34". Most fall in the 28" or 30" in my small collection.
  
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