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JCHannum
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CC Johnson Hi-wall
Dec 5th, 2007 at 10:45pm
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My son just acquired this Hi-wall. I have only seen the photos, so I cannot give a full evaluation, but it looks to be a good clean gun. The barrel is marked CC Johnson Thackery Ohio 22-3000. There are no Winchester markings, so it is probably not a relined barrel.

The stock appears of the period. The scope is wrong, but it has external adjustable mounts that are offset. From the photos, it appears to be a plain trigger. 

[img]https://members.aol.com/jchannum/hi-wall[/img]

Any information regarding value or interest to purchase is appreciated.
  

Jim H.
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Green_Frog
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Re: CC Johnson Hi-wall
Reply #1 - Dec 6th, 2007 at 7:26am
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JC, 

     If you will remove the fore end and check the bottom of the barrel, you will probably find some code numbers stamped there, fairly near the receiver.  The grandson of CC Johnson is a contributor to this forum and has conserved his grandfather's shop records.  It is quite likely that with the information recorded on the barrel he can look up the record of when and for whom the rifle was built and what was done on the rifle.  You will probably find that the stock work was done by someone else, as Johnson seldom did wood himself, but he did sometimes arrange that for his customer and that even that info may be recorded as well.  You have come across an interesting piece of single shot rifle history there, enjoy it!

Green Frog
  
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JCHannum
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Re: CC Johnson Hi-wall
Reply #2 - Dec 6th, 2007 at 4:21pm
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Green Frog, thanks for the comments. We will take a look for the numbers and further documentation. 

Would anybody care to hazard a guess as to approximate value of the gun or make an offer to purchase it?
  

Jim H.
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marlinguy
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Re: CC Johnson Hi-wall
Reply #3 - Dec 6th, 2007 at 9:52pm
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Pretty tough to hazard a guesstimate of value, or make an offer with just one small picture of the left side of the receiver!
Might I suggest you take 4-5 pictures of the entire gun, both sides, and a few angles?  Condition of the bore, chamber, throat, etc. described would also help.
Just a note on the stocks; they are of some period when the gun was reworked, but not of the period when it was originally made by Winchester. -Vall
  
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vigillinus
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Re: CC Johnson Hi-wall
Reply #4 - Dec 7th, 2007 at 12:57am
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Scope appears to be one of the less expensive Weavers - not a 330 or 440 which were top of the line - set up in some other maker's external target mounts.  Curious rig.
  
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JCHannum
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Re: CC Johnson Hi-wall
Reply #5 - Dec 7th, 2007 at 11:00am
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I understand the problems with estimating value on the little information provided. My son just acquired the gun and we are looking for a range. It will be a couple of days before I can physically see it and get better photos.

I do realize the scope is wrong as I mentioned. The mounts do appear correct for the time of the modifications. Obviously it has been modified, apparently by CC Johnson. Previous posts indicate his stocks were not works of art, and it appears this gun is such. It quite possibly is as it was when completed by him, and my questions are does it have a value as a CC Johnson or should we just blow it out for parts.
  

Jim H.
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Green_Frog
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Re: CC Johnson Hi-wall
Reply #6 - Dec 7th, 2007 at 12:31pm
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Alright, JC, I'll try to address your question, now that I understand what you are asking.  First, if you had asked the question about 5 or more years ago, I would have said without even looking at it to use the rifle any way you wanted as it had already been altered (in this case by Johnson.)  In the intervening time, interest in these classic custom varmint rifles has risen considerably, especially those by well known builders such as CC Johnson.   

IMHO, the rifle needs to be examined carefully to determine what modifications were done by Johnson, whether the stock can be attributed to one of his regular collaborators, and then of course, the condition of the overall package.  Information from Jerry Johnson will be most helpful here.  After that, you need to decide whether you want to keep it as is (for shooting or collector value) or sell it to someone who wants it for that scenario, or break it down for the action.  My personal inclination would be to keep/shoot it or let somebody else do that, but as the price of usable actions comes up, the "luxury" of keeping it "second time original" may be too great.  There has been a discussion or two on this board recently about the value of a high-wall receiver, and the consensus was that there was no single price agreed upon, but the range went from a low of about $600 or so to nearly twice that for a good buildable action, which you would have in that one, I am sure.  Value of the package as is?  That will require a good deal more info.

I must confess that I broke down one of Johnson's rifles, BUT it was a .22-3000 and had a blockage of some unmoveable material about midway up the bore. I found an original barrel and fore end for sale from one source and an original butt stock from another and did a sort of "rehab to original" since the key part of the Johnson work, barrel, was unusable.

HTH ~ Froggie
  
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JCHannum
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Re: CC Johnson Hi-wall
Reply #7 - Dec 7th, 2007 at 1:17pm
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Froggie;
Thanks for your valued reply. I do some collecting and restoration of single shots, and I am currently building a Frontier Armory Hi-wall casting set. 

I would love to have the gun for myself. However, it belongs to my son, and he needs to maximize his investment. I am not in a position to spend a fair price for the gun and am simply trying to help him get that. It is hoped that the members of this forum would offer help in that respect.

  

Jim H.
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J.D.Steele
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Re: CC Johnson Hi-wall
Reply #8 - Dec 7th, 2007 at 3:43pm
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I'll stick my neck out here and give an opinion FWIW. I'm a single shot rifle junkie and have owned a number of rifles similar to this one including a few by both CC and Eric (no relation) Johnson. IMO the barreled action has an extra $ value associated with it simply because of Johnson's superior metalwork; however the stocks appear to have few really attractive features and, unless your son really likes their shape and styling, they shouldn't be valued very highly at all, at all. The scope is at best an interesting oddity, and IMO should be used on some sort of light rimfire instead of a presumably heavier varminter, primarily due to its small size, low power and less-than-optimum optical qualities. I own and have owned several similarly-unusual small scopes. The chambering has nothing to recommend it since brass is hard to find and power is lacking; I assume the barrel is of a heavy contour and thus a more awkward weight.

If I owned that rifle then I'd test it for accuracy before anything else. If accurate (less than 0.75 MOA) then I'd either keep (and cherish) it or else let someone else have the whole package. If inaccurate then I'd either sell it or its components or use the parts for something else. I guess what I'm saying is that it's too ugly and probably too heavily awkward to be really desireable in its present guise and the wood isn't attractive enough to interest a Johnson collector IMO.

I've had several similar varmint rifles of the mid-20th century era that I have altered into some fairly attractive lighter-weight forms in the cases where there was enough wood to reshape properly. I've never altered a Johnson rifle since there was always someone else who wanted it in its originally-altered form and was willing to pay a fair price.

If I owned your son's rifle I would probably not sell it for $1200 but would want to kiss anyone who would give more than $1600. That's my story and I'm  sticking to it but don't forget what Lacey J said in the song: (musical accompaniment here) "I been wro-ong before!"
Good luck, Joe
  
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Re: CC Johnson Hi-wall
Reply #9 - Dec 9th, 2007 at 6:54am
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While the Johnson rifles are interesting and could be considered collectibles. I had a Johnson Ballard. It had been for sale a long time with no takers. Seller took my rock bottom offer.  I kept it for a while but when I wanted to sell, same story no buyers.

Ended up selling to a friend of mine who still shoots it in ASSRA matches. Price was exactly what I paid.  A thing of Beauty is a joy forever.  Johnson Single Shots are not Beautiful.

Boats
  
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vigillinus
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Re: CC Johnson Hi-wall
Reply #10 - Dec 14th, 2007 at 3:33am
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Always had a hankering to take one of those heavy hiwall varminters of the 40s or 50s, if not drilled too deeply for scope block screws, and have it rebored for one of the big nitro express catridges - .450, .470, .500.   Trim a little wood off the stock to make it handle a bit better and you would have a reasonably effective elephant rifle.   Never did get around to it and since the advent of the Ruger No. 1 in .458, and now .450/.400, there would be no point to it.
  
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