Cartridges of the World by Barnes shows incorrect Norma factory load data and grossly excessive load data for 8x58R Danish in the application of the m/1889 Swedish rolling block rifle.

There has also recently been published some data for the 8x58R Danish for use in the 1889 Swedish rolling block rifle that far exceeds safe load levels. In most cases these mentioned load levels exceed .30-06 load data and we must ask if they exceed the listed chamber pressures as shown in Lyman 47th Edition Reloading manual. Considering the level loaded by Norma Precision AB was in the neighborhood of 28,000 psi and the recently published data suggests pressures in the range of 48,000 to 50,000 psi we must be very concerned in this matter.

The following data and information comes from the technical department of Norma Precision AB in Sweden. 

In loading data of 30+ years ago the Norma reloading manual listed three bullet weights along with velocity and chamber pressure in psi and BAR. These loads were considered by Norma to be safe for the 1889 rolling block in 8x58RD. All the information presented here conforms to these bullet weights and velocities. As the powder used by the Norma data 30+ years ago is now different I won’t include that particular powder.

159 gr at 2,477 fps for 28,660 psi 
196 gr at 2,231 fps for 26,460 psi 
198 gr at 2,296 fps for 28,080 psi 

The tech department at Norma also sent me data from the Norwegian Vapenjournalens Ladeboken with data specifically developed for the 1889 Swedish rolling block. This more recent information coupled with the older Norma data shows a clear and consistent velocity range obtained with specific bullet weights. This late data has no chamber pressure readings which emphasizes the focus of bullet weight and velocity obtained with a specific burn rate powder.

This first text is the preface translated from Swedish:

[Begin quote] 

8x58RD 

The Danish military cartridge of 1889 is not a common 
sight today. The Danish Krag Jörgensen rifle is rarely 
used today, but the cartridge was chambered also in 
Danish, Swedish and Norwegian Remington rolling block 
rifles, and these are stumbled upon fairly regularly. Some 
people like to shoot these old rifles, so therefore we 
have included loading data for it. 

Originally the cartridge was loaded with a compressed 
black powder charge, awaiting the final development of 
the smokeless powders. The first military cartridge had 
a 14,7 g roundnose bullet, loaded to a V0 of about 
485 m/s. In later smokeless loads the velocity was 
increased to 620 m/s using the same bullet. 

In 1908 the Danes went over to the so called "spidsskarp", 
a cartridge loaded with a 12,7 g spitzer bullet where the 
velocity was a claimed 750 m/s. The experience with this 
cartridge was, however, that it was too powerful for the 
rolling block rifles, and a reduced charge load using the 
Dane bullet was developed for these rifles. 

Until the 1960's, Norma made a factory load in 8x58RD 
using a 12,7 g soft point and a claimed velocity of 680 m/s, 
with respect due to the many rolling block rifles being used 
for hunting in Sweden. Norma also made a batch of M1908 
spidsskarp for Denmark, using these same figures. 

The loads presented here are being held to the same 
levels, and can be used in both Krag-Jörgensen and 
rolling block rifles. Original cases uses Berdan primers, 
but new boxer primed cases are available from Bertram. 
Loading dies are available from RCBS. 

[end quote] 

Next is the technical data of the test weapon and comparison loads. 
Pay attention to the two factory loads. 

[begin translation] 

Test weapon; Carl Gustaf Remington Rolling Block 1872/93 
(m/1867-89 converted in 1893. Obviously a military rifle, but no further 
clues to whether sporterized or original. Barrel length suggests the 
latter.) 
Barrel length - 85 cm / 33" 
Rifling twist - 1-9 ½" / 1- 241 mm 
Rifling dia. - .323" / 8,20 mm 
Case - Bertram 
Primer - Remington 9 ½ 
Maximum case length - 58,0 mm 
Trim-to length - 57,8 mm 
Factory ammunition chronographed in test weapon - 
--Norma 12,7 g (196 gr) Alaska 2,234 fps / 681 ms - 
--Norma manufactured M1908 Spidsskarp (spitzer) 
 (D Mantel type bullet) 12,7 g 2,283 fps / 696 ms 

(Bracketed comments by the translator) 
[end translation] 

These two chronographed Norma factory cartridges from a reliable and respected source contradicts COTW and replaces COTW as a credible source of information on the 8x58RD in the application of the 1889 Swedish rolling block.

The actual load data from Vapenjournalens Ladeboken:

196 grain Sellier & Bellot soft point bullet .323" diameter:

N135 43 grains 2,196 feet per second
44 grains 2,244 feet per second

N140 45 grains 2,144 feet per second
46 grains 2,230 feet per second 

Cartridges of the World by Barnes has long been used as a source of information and as such it’s a fine reference. But COTW is not a loading manual with a laboratory behind it nor is any of the load data referenced to anyone or any place to check the veracity of the data. Clearly their inclusion of Norma factory load velocities is wholly incorrect as cited by the above chronographed loads from verified sources and supplied by the technical department of Norma Precision AB. 

Dutchman 
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) 
Swedish Mausers 1894 & 1896
& Swedish rolling block rifles

Might I humbly suggest that this be revised and submitted to the ASSRA Journal for wider publication.  It should be revised by including "english" standard measurement conversions for the metric ones.

while this site has a fair percentage of non-ASSRA participants, the Journal membership includes a larger number of single shot enthusiasts that do not participate in the web community who might appreciate the information as well.

Dutchman, this site is maintained by the American Single Shot Rifle Association, a national organization (in fact having international membership.)  One of the greatest benefits of membership is the Journal which members receive on an every-other-month basis.  It contains match results, historical articles, do-it-yourself and reloading articles and other things of interest to the single shot enthusiast.  You can go to the home page of the website and get info about joining and other aspects of the association.  Hope you will join us!

Froggie

Quite a number of the Swedish rolling blocks were rebarreled to 7x57 Mauser and proofed in Germany for use by the Rurales in the Mexican Revolution. The 7x57 develops pressure far higher than what's being suggested here. What gives?

Buffalo Arms is now offering loaded 8x58R Danish ammunition as well as brass, and Bernold Nelson at GAD Custom Cartridge is making it up on special order at reasonable cost itself. Components have become widely available and, with the number of so-chambered rolling blocks coming into the country in recent years, this versatile round should only gain in popularity. The GAD load pushes a 250-gr. gas check bullet at something over 1800 fps, is very accurate, and packs enough punch to be useful on any game in the lower 48 out to around 150 yards.

I have great succes with the 8mm MAX. bullet sold by Midsouth Shooters Supply.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

This is the newest information on the 8x58RD for use in the Swedish m/1889 rolling block.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)