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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle (Read 19205 times)
swifty
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Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Mar 20th, 2005 at 9:59am
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I just joined the ASSRA # 9113.I received Journal Vol/58,No.4 Jul-Aug 2004.Page 22 in an article A Modest Schuetzen
Steven Durren writes about converting a NEF aka H&R single shot rifle to a schuetzen.There is a Steven Durren associated with Johnson's Sporting goods listed on page 55. I assume he is the same person.
There is also an article in the Single Shot Exchange for March 2005 by a Major Keogh on modifying a New England Firearms H&R single shot rifle. Both used the H&R rifle to build from..
I ordered a Buffalo Classic Rifle 45/70 32 inch green mountain barrel as a starter BPCR rifle. Including tax the rifle will cost $348 .I come from muzzel loader group of shooter so this is a new area for me. 
My plan is to lap the barrel, refinish the stock in a nice oil rubbed finished and recut the checkering of the stock. I have an extra single set trigger that I wonder if I could use in the Buffalo classic. I plan to replace the receiver sight with a tang sight or a lyman receiver sight.
The gun is ordered so its on the way so the issue is not wheather or not to buy.
The question is have any of you had any actual experence with this particular firearm -have you modified it- have you changed it -and what were your experiences???? 
  
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clubshoot
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #1 - Mar 20th, 2005 at 2:36pm
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I would test fire the rifle before fooling around with lapping the barrel. I've seen Green Mountain barrels perform as well as any. What is really important is getting the right bullet. You may want to call GM, if you don't have the numbers, and get groove and bore specs. Steve Brooks can make you any bullet needed.
  
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TimK
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #2 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 2:54pm
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Swifty,  I have a H&R Buffalo Classic.  I changed the rear sight to the Lyman they sell, as I was using light smokeless loads & BP loads.  I can get 1" to 2" groups with it, if it's a calm day and I'm shooting good.  I opened the barrel channel to fload the barrel beyond the hanger stud.  I also put a rubber washer on the stud.  I had a brass rod machined to fit into the stock to better balance the gun and reduce the recoil.  My gun started shooting better after I floated the barrel.  I've been thinking about getting a scope mount to just see how good that gun would shoot, as I don't think I'm all that good with iron sights, yet.  Tim K
  
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swifty
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #3 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 4:42pm
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Hi TimK
What is the model number on the lyman receiver sight that you used.
Did you glass bed the forarm? 
Thanks
Swifty
  
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TimK
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #4 - Mar 22nd, 2005 at 7:47am
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The sight is the one you can get off the H&R web site.  I just called them up and ordered it.  I figured there was a chance of getting the wrong one from Midway or someone else.  No, I have not bedded the barrel, although it sounds like a good idea, as I'm getting ready to do an old Ruger#77 that I bought in 1970 when I lived in Alaska.  Sloppy fit, you get 3 good rounds then they are all over the place until you loosen the screws and center it.  It's OK for deer hunting, but not for woodchucks.  Tim K
  
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Dale53
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #5 - Mar 22nd, 2005 at 1:50pm
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I have no general comments to offer about the rifle (no personal experience with it, specifically). Steve Durren will be the one to give you actual user info regarding the rifle.

However, I did compete in BPCR Silhouette for over fifteen years. That experience allows me to make an observation or two regarding BPCR's in general.

Make quite sure that the particular rifle is approved for BPCR Silhouette and/or long range. There are specific qualifications that need to be met and these folks have NO sense of humor Grin regarding shooting an unapproved rifle. I have no argument regarding the equipment, it is just that you need to be sure it will be accepted before you spend a lot of money equipping a rifle that will not be allowed to compete. It HAS happened, believe me.

If your rifle has a Green Mountain barrel on it, you will probably find that it's interior should be as good as it needs to be. I wouldn't do a thing to the inside - it's already "Ready". Steve's rifle shoots well (the project rifle) so I expect that your's will (bedding the forend is probably a REALLY good idea).

Sights - if you intend to shoot "Mid to Long range" you will need a vernier tang sight. A Lyman or other brand similar sight will NOT have the range needed to get hits from 200-1000 yards like a true long range vernier sight will do. I can recommend the "Parts Unknown" ( the Ukrainian sights)verniers as well as the Browning on the "low end" as well as the Baldwin and MVA sights on the "high end" (none of these are inexpensive). There are other good ones out there, of course.

At any rate, if you have any idea of shooting past two hundred yards or so, you will need a good set of Vernier sights. I don't recommend the cheap Italian conversion sights. Pedersoli, however, does make a decent sight but you have to know which model is a good one.

Good luck and shoot center!

Dale53
  
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Shooter
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #6 - Sep 5th, 2005 at 8:55am
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You can get a bit more elevation with the "Buff Classic" by replacing the front sight (Lyman 17a) with a shorter 17a.
I have only had mine a short time, so I haven't broke it in yet.
Best,
Mike
  
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smokinjoe
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #7 - Sep 6th, 2005 at 3:45pm
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Swifty, I've been shooting the B/C for about a year now, and it's a good rifle for the price. It's not legal for BPCR Silhouette, but is accepted in a few of the other classes. Mine likes the Lee 500 3R and the Paul Jones Creedmore with SPG lube.
Forget about lapping............probably won't need it.
Also, OAL info to touch lands:

  Lee 500 3R = 2.900
Paul Jones    = 2.910
  
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swifty
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #8 - Sep 6th, 2005 at 6:21pm
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I would like to know what sights you have been using with the buffalo classic /target rifle. I have both barrels. My experience with the Williams sight is that it is very difficult to adjust.Yhere are no clicks and its hard to adjust.
  
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smokinjoe
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #9 - Sep 6th, 2005 at 8:53pm
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Mine uses a vernier tang (5" elevation) inletted into the stock wrist and the Lyman 17A (.584")

Check over at Graybeard Outdoors; there's a ton of guys shooting and modifying them:

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swifty
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #10 - Sep 6th, 2005 at 9:04pm
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Which vernier tang,model number or name,and details.
  
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smokinjoe
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #11 - Sep 6th, 2005 at 9:54pm
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Pedersoli, made for the 1874 Sharps. 2.260" hole spacing, windage adjustments, perpendicular adjustment.

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leadball
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #12 - Sep 11th, 2005 at 9:24pm
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Is it true that the H&R Buffalo Classic is not legal for BPCR--I suppose that would mean all break-down [tip up] rifles are not legal.  I wonder why. as this type rifle preceded most of the falling-block's used in BPCR.   leadball
  
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JDSteele
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #13 - Sep 11th, 2005 at 11:01pm
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It's true the rifle isn't legal for BPCRS, and it's probably for about the same reason that bbls shorter than 21.5" aren't legal for ASSRA.

I.e., someone in authority decided, for whatever personal reason, that he didn't want it to be legal.
JMO, Joe

PS there has been some discussion about petitioning the NRA Silhouette Committee to make it legal, but nothing yet that I know of.
  
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Shooter
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #14 - Sep 12th, 2005 at 8:51am
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I think it uses a "Reciever Style" sight. That is one thing that disqualifies the H&R. Are there other reasons?
It seems a tang sight woud make it leagle.
Best,
Mike
  
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JDSteele
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #15 - Sep 12th, 2005 at 9:12am
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The sight isn't the reason, it's the break-open action. H&R didn't make this action back then, and no other application for legalizing a break-open action has been made under the name of any other maker, so far as I know. Hopefully that'll change.

Maynard of course made a break-open action and it's legal, but it isn't the same as the H&R.
TTFN, Joe
  
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Shooter
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #16 - Sep 17th, 2005 at 7:55pm
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I thought, (and that usualy gets me in trouble) that H&R relied on the Frank Wesson 1860 tip up for their historical link.
The newer ones are called "Harrington and Wesson".
Just curious.
Mike
  
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JDSteele
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #17 - Sep 17th, 2005 at 8:18pm
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Evidently the NRA needs it spelled out for them since the company names are different. Or maybe the 'snob factor' is at work here, that possibility has occurred to me. Regards, Joe
  
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Shooter
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #18 - Sep 17th, 2005 at 8:29pm
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Maybe they are afraid they will open it up to TC Encores. Smiley
Best,
Mike
  
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First_Shirt
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #19 - Sep 18th, 2005 at 10:29am
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Guys, this topic comes up  pretty regularly.  I REALLY don't think that the NRA has it in for the Buffalo Classic...this organization wants and needs all the competitor's dollars it can get.  I'd bet that no one has properly petitioned the competition committee for it's inclusion.   

Just for the record:

3.4 Black Powder Cartridge Rifle-A hunting or military style rifle, single shot, originally made for black powder, of United States manufacture prior to 1896 and being typical of the era.  Replicas thereof, regardless of origin of manufacture, are permitted.  Hammer must be exposed. If replacement barrels, stocks, or other parts are used, they must be as original.  No schuetzen-style rifles permitted.  One rifle will be used during all phases of the match.  Examples of permissable rifles are: Ballard, Buck, Bullard, Cole, Farrow, Maynard, Peabody, Redfield, Remington Hepburn, Remington Rolling Block, Sharps, Springfield Trapdoor, Stevens Tip-up, Stevens No. 44, Wesson Falling Block, Wesson (hinged barrel), Whitney Phoenix, Whitney Rolling Block, Winchester 1885, and Wurfflein.  While the following single shot actions may not conform to the exact criteria of Rule 3.4, they are allowed because they conform to the spirit of the competition in form and function, provided the firearms conform to all other configurations of Rule 3.4: Browning Model 78, Browning Model 1885, C. Sharps '75, Falling Block Works, Stevens 44 1/2, and Wickliff '76.  Replicas other than exact reproductions of pre-1896 Black Powder actions as described above and shooting equipment as described herein, must be passed by the Silhouette Committee with the advice of the Black Powder Committee.  It shall be the competitor's responsibility to provide any documentation which may be required to establish that all Black Powder Cartridge Rifle equipment conforms to these rules.

Sorry to bore you with the rules, but there you have it.  The Buffalo Classic is not an exact replica of a pre-1896 rifle.  Your best shot is to petition the Silhouette Committe for it's inclusion under the " spirit of the competition" clause, that I placed in italics above.  Who knows, stranger things have happened...

Greg
  
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JDSteele
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #20 - Sep 18th, 2005 at 5:47pm
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Quote:
 Who knows, stranger things have happened...

Greg



Yeah. Stranger. Like approving the new so-called 'Farrow', made of stainless steel no less. It's a NON-faithful reproduction of a strictly target (& SCHUETZEN target at that!) rifle which in its original form is illegal. IMO, and incidentally also in my experience, it all depends upon who's doing the petitioning.
Food for thought, Joe
  
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First_Shirt
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #21 - Sep 18th, 2005 at 9:30pm
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Joe, I hear you on that one!  I never meant to imply that I liked, agreed with, or even understood the rules  Undecided...I guess what my somewhat be-labored point was, is that them's the rules, as they stand...but a mechanism is in place for change.

Personally, FWIW, I don't believe ANY ADVANTAGE exists with ANY suitable action.  If it did, everyone would be shooting stainless steel pseudo Farrows.  I've seen excellent (and not so excellent) scores shot with just about anything you can imagine, just shooting weekend matches here in the midwest...

I believe that the single most limiting factor with the BP target sports is a person's ability to craft match-grade ammunition with cast lead and black powder.  After that, learning to deal with the "conditions" that affect these cartridges to a MUCH greater extent than you might expect is the next hurdle...action type and any perceived advantages are way down on my list of stuff to worry about.   

When I first got interested in this venue several years ago, someone on the old Shooter's Talk board told me I was embarking on a post-graduate reloading course...and I ain't nowheres near to graduating yet!  I guess that's what keeps me coming back for more.

Greg
  
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JDSteele
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Re: Buffalo Classic-New england Firearms rifle
Reply #22 - Sep 19th, 2005 at 10:00am
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Greg, I agree about the reloading. I was fortunate enough to have been casting the 457125 since the '60s, so got just a little taste & experience in that way. But the expertise necessary for truly excellent ammo is still eluding me.

And, for purposes of silhouette shooting, I also agree about the action type not being the deciding factor. The convincing argument, for me, was the example set by Gunny several yrs ago at the first Cyber Shoot in E Texas, where he turned in a truly outstanding performance with his sidehammer Sharps.

His score itself wasn't a record, although it was enough to win the shoot very handily (around 30-31 as I remember). No, the convincing factor for me was the fact that he did it with a broken rifle.

Yes, his set triggers broke while shooting the turkeys, and he went on to clean them and then win the shoot by his outstanding shooting at the other banks as well. And he was shooting against some mighty stiff competition from those guys in E Texas as well as the rdnck and Dangerous Dan Theodore. But he whupped 'em all handily and made a believer out of me, I can tell ya.

So IMO the action a person likes the best is probably the one with which they'll do their best shooting, at least in the silhouette competitions & also in most offhand Schuetzen competitions as well. Benchrest OTOH...................
Regards, Joe
  
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