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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) .405 Win vrs .40-65 (Read 34116 times)
QuestionableMaynard8130
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.405 Win vrs .40-65
Dec 22nd, 2004 at 8:40am
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I need advice/opinion.  while I LOVE singleshots I don't have a big knowledge base about them or their cartridges  As a result I have to lean on your collective experience.
 I have decided to Christmas gift myself with one of Steve Earle's Wesson#1 actions.  I want to buld a classic semi English style hunting rifle rather than a pure target gun.
 I am thinking of a .40 cal since it will make an effective hunting gun.  I have recently acquired an older Pope-style stocked CPA that came with a 40-65 barrel (Which I have yet to do any loading for or shooting with it since the stocks still needs to be finished).
 I could set up the new rifle in 40-65 of course and GM has ready made 40-65 barrels available, but that new Handloader article about the .405 Win. made that classic cartridge sound real good too.  I like the look of that long straight cartridge, plus the ability to work with factory ammo and a wide range of bullet weights, cast and jacketed etc etc.
Does anybody out there have experience with both these cartridges and is willing to compare them.    DWS
  

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FAsmus
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Re: .405 Win vrs .40-65
Reply #1 - Dec 22nd, 2004 at 12:09pm
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DWS,

In my view the 40/65 is a better choice by reason of component availability.

The 405 will require the 405 case, more expensive than the 45/70 sized to fit your 40.

The 40 has many bullet designs available for your use in times to come. Whatever it is you ulitmately decide to do with the rifle 40 will be more versatile.

Good morning,
Forrest
  
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singleshot
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Re: .405 Win vrs .40-65
Reply #2 - Dec 22nd, 2004 at 12:40pm
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Wayne- Go with the 40-65.  As Forrest said there are many bullets available for it in the .406-.410 diameters.  The 405 Winchester is a .413 groove diameter and the bullet selection is very limited.  If you really want one though- I have a new Douglas 405 basic tube I would be glad to sell you!

Willis
  

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MIKE-T
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Re: .405 Win vrs .40-65
Reply #3 - Dec 22nd, 2004 at 12:54pm
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DWS, 
     If you like the long straight cases like the 405 Winchester. Take a look at the 40 Sharps Straight series of cartridges - 40-50SS (1.88 Inches long), 40-70SS (2.50 inches long). The 40-70 looks a lot like the 405 and brass is available from Rocky Mountain Cartridge Co. (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) . Only qualifier is that the Bore size be the same as 40/65 .406-.408” so it will take the many bullet mould designs available for 40/65. Also requires that the chamber reamer pilot and neck size be correct for the .408” bore size! Some of the reamers are made to use 405 brass shortened to go in the 40-50 & 40-70SS, make sure you know which reamer was used to cut the chamber so you get the correct brass. The 3 ¼ inch long 40-90 Sharps Straight is another choice, personally would not fool with this cartridge for a smokeless rifle, but it should be very good in BP.
What ever you decide enjoy your new rifle, could not think of a better Christmas gift.
Mike  Smiley Smiley Smiley
« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2004 at 1:12pm by MIKE-T »  
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PETE
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Re: .405 Win vrs .40-65
Reply #4 - Dec 22nd, 2004 at 2:09pm
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Wayne,

The .40/65 is probably the best way to go, but the .405 would be more fun. I'm sure Michigan(?) will need a Control Officer for those rogue Elephant that could appear at any time in your neighborhood.

  I'm contemplating buying a double rifle in a coupla months and have the choice of the .45/70, 9.3x74R, or the 8mm rimmed. Everybody tells me I should get the .45/70, because I already have everything for it including half a doz. moulds. But, I get to thinking that, for me, the .45/70 is so blase'. Been there, done that, for more years than I can remember. Now that 9.3 really tickles my fancy!

  If you want to be practical then the .40/65 is what you want, for all the reasons others have mentioned. But, if you're like me and figure you only go thru life once, then the .405 would be a LOT more fun!

PETE
  
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JDSteele
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Re: .405 Win vrs .40-65
Reply #5 - Dec 22nd, 2004 at 2:23pm
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The 40-70 SS is almost identical to the 405 WCF, only minor dimensional differences. It normally uses a .408 bore size like some 40-65s, and heavy .408 jacketed big game bullets are available if your thoughts run that way. I would choose the 40-70 SS over the 405 because of much better & far more versatile bullet selection, but would choose the 40-65 in 408 bore size above either of the straight cases because of its proven excellence and abundance of good loading data.
JMO, good luck whichever, Joe
  
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JDSteele
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Re: .405 Win vrs .40-65
Reply #6 - Dec 22nd, 2004 at 2:27pm
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Pete, go with the 9.3x74R, it's a great cartridge. One of the drawbacks is the lack of abundant components and moulds but a good custom mould can solve that. I prefer Norma cases over RWS for several reasons and I wonder if the new 405 brass can be made to work?
ttfn, Joe
  
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PETE
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Re: .405 Win vrs .40-65
Reply #7 - Dec 22nd, 2004 at 2:56pm
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Joe,

  Yeah! I'm leaning toward the 9.3. It'll be a coupla months before I've got the money, so in the meantime I'm blowing hot and cold about it and the .45/70. Just a case on if I chicken out between now and then.  Smiley

  What I'm planning on buying is the Pedersoli Kodiak Mark IV. Talked a little with Dick Trenk about it and found that the .45/70 is proofed at 35,000 PSI and they use the Federal 405 gr. load for regulating it. Dick says he's talked to several people at the shows who own them and they all seem to think they are a good buy. But would like to talk to someone else who actually owns one. Should probably ask on the Double Gun BBS.

  I see Buffalo Arms has 9.3 cases for $80 a 100, I think it is. They don't mention what brand they've got, but from the price I don't think they're making them from something else. Dies are $45, which kinda surprised me as I thought they'd be in the obsolete category even tho it's still a reasonably popular cartridge yet in Europe and Africa. I also see that NEI has a few suitable moulds to.

  Hmmmm. Never thought of the .405 as a possible basic case for the 9.3. Guess I'll have to see what the dimensions are for both.

PETE
  
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Re: .405 Win vrs .40-65
Reply #8 - Dec 22nd, 2004 at 3:48pm
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DW just remember you will be buying the barrel you don`t have to use a .413 bore barrel you can use .403 or what ever you want the 405 win get it or you will allway be looking over you should
  

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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: .405 Win vrs .40-65
Reply #9 - Dec 22nd, 2004 at 5:10pm
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OK if I understand this correctly:
The 4070 sharps straght is a longer straight case--(nominally with 5 gr more BP as originally loaded than the tapered 4065.) but it will take all the same bullets as the 40-65.  so this would simply involve cutting a new chamber in a 4065 barrel.  4070 ssharps cases are available. 

the .405W has to have a larger bore--and correspondingly larger bullets.   

Sounds like the 4070ss is having my cake and eating it too.   where is the downside--gotta be one there somewhere?

  

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JDSteele
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Re: .405 Win vrs .40-65
Reply #10 - Dec 22nd, 2004 at 5:35pm
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Wayne, may I humbly suggest that you get the 408 dia barrel? All sorts of moulds available, plus Barnes makes several jacketed 408 bullets, all the way up to those suitable for the British 400-cal Nitro cartridges, also 408 dia. Also may I suggest getting the fastest twist available, say around 1-14? This will properly stabilize 400-gr bullets while also doing well with the lighter 300-gr ones. The 405 is normally used with lighter bullets & the std 405 twist won't stabilize the heavy bullets as well. I believe Green Mountain bbls are 408 dia & 1-14 twist although I could be wrong about the twist.

And another reason for choosing the 40-70 SS: I have an almost-new chamber reamer that I'll be happy to loan you or your gunsmith. The 40-70 SS is one fine-looking cartridge although I'd still choose the 40-65 for BP loads.
Wishing you luck, Joe
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: .405 Win vrs .40-65
Reply #11 - Dec 22nd, 2004 at 8:52pm
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beaucoup de cool !!!!!!!  I think it'll be the .40 SSharps  a properly antique but very versatile cartridge.  I WILL remeber the reamer offer

and a Merry and Safe Christmas to all.
  

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40_Rod
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Re: .405 Win vrs .40-65
Reply #12 - Dec 23rd, 2004 at 8:15am
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D.W. 

One more sugestion look at the 40-60 Maynard. It is the same stright case as the 40-70 but it can be full length formed from dirt cheap 30-40 Kraig brass There is plenty of room for powder. 

40 Rod
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: .405 Win vrs .40-65
Reply #13 - Dec 23rd, 2004 at 8:42am
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All wrong, please...  The Wesson action is basically the same as an Alex Henry action, so would be correct for an english sporting rifle.  BUT a brit sporting rifle should be chambered for a brit round!  No way around it...  Something like one of the .400 nitro's (the long 500/450 comes to mind - was available back then as a BP number in the days of the External-hammer AH rifle) would be good as well as authentic.  Brass will be a bit more expensive, true, but at least the rifle will be correct!
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: .405 Win vrs .40-65
Reply #14 - Dec 23rd, 2004 at 10:05am
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I guess if I was really trying to be completely accurate, I'd chamber it for one of Wesson's propriatary cartridges,  which would open a whole new bucket of snakes. Tongue   What I found in Grant seems to indicate mass confusion over Wesson's cart. I know the Wesson was an "American adaptation" so in this case I feel that I need to use an American cartridge.
Maybe over the holiday season I can go back through my reference files of old Journals and Rifle/Handloader.  Unfortunately over the years my cartridge book have gone aglimmering so I am missing some of the better reference works.
  

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