PETE,

I should explain further that all of my comments regarding bullet lubrication are based on testing breechseated bullets, this in itself may result in different results when shooting fixed cartridges. 

Best Regards,
Homer? ???

  I would have thought even after turning the bullet down to suit there would still have been very shallow grease grooves left. Were the grease grooves shallow enuf that they disappeared?


PETE,

For clairification go look at the NEI catalog for the bullet in question.

It is a good BP design I think with a great deal of its weight in the nose, allowing a fellow to short-seat it into say a 45/70 case but leave plenty of room for powder.

The design actually had one grease groove cut into the nose riding portion of the bullet and the next one marked the place where the nose ended and the base began.

My modification of the mold itself removed both of these grooves completely and provided a very slight interfearance fit into the barrel of my Ballard as each round was chambered.

Removal of the grooves upped the weight to 572 grains as well and I had hopes it would shoot better than anything else I had yet tried in the 1000 yard matches.

This did not prove to be the case. It did very well at short ranges but never quite out performed the old Lyman "Postell" design at the 1000.

Good morning,
Forrest

Pete:: Is the Roderick Lube you mentioned for use with Black Powder?   If so could you share the formula and or the temper mix.   Best Regards  steve witt-waterloo

  I did look at the NEI catalog of your bullet, but possibly it's not the same one you are talking about since it doesn't have a GG in front of the front band. In the catalog I have, which is an old one the bullet you mention is the.458-555  #349J  Gunn Long Range.

PETE,

You have the correct bullet. The catalog picture does not have enough detail, I find, to show how the first two GG are actually designed into the bullet. If you had the mold in your hands, or a bullet cast from it you'd see right-off how the first GG is actually on the bore-riding nose and the next is located right where the bullet goes up to full diameter.

P:  But actually the reason for asking if there was any lube groove left, it looked as if the lube grooves were machined off there might be some GG left, albeit it would have to be a thin. Altho the picture is supposed to be dimensionally correct, working with that close of tolerances it was hard to tell whether any GG was left.

F: It is possible that your perseption is upside down or reversed as it were: The bottom of the Grease Grooves, being well under size as compared to bore or groove diameter are 
re-cut in a lathe such as to completely remove them, increasing the diameter of the bullet at the place they were formerly located to 0.451.

P:  So, with that out of the way...... Yes, it does look like a pretty good BP bullet, but then Dick Gunn is pretty good at designing that kind. Dick & I hashed over a design for my .50 cal. and Walt put it in his inventory. Proved to be a very good bullet and I won quite a bit of hardware with it.

F: What is the NEI number?

P:  As for the Postel..... It's a pretty hard design to beat so it didn't surprise me to see you think it's the best one you've tried so far.

F: Yes, it is the best 45 calber bullet I own. However, the Paul Jones 50 caliber "Creedmoor" is the best of all.

Good morning,
Forrest

  Like I said, I think the picture I'm looking at and the one you're referencing are two different ones. On the picture I have the driving bands are over the nose diam. so if you machined off the GG's to nose/bore diam. that would still leave a very shallow GG.

PETE,

Yes, I see what has caused this difference in our viewpoints.

I just went over there a took a new look at 458-555.

That is for certain the bullet I started out with.

The drawing, after my review, is only marginally correct. It is drawn as though the first two GG were in the body of the bullet. This is shown by the fact that there is a line ahead of all four GG in the drawing, making for a rather short nose.

The way the tool actualy comes is not that way at all. The first groove is right on the 0.448 nose, well ahead of any driving band and the second one forms a kind of "scraper groove" just ahead of the following full diameter base bands. 

In the drawing the small difference between full diameter and nose diameter is not well defined, and further, the line ahead of all the Grease Grooves simply is not there in the real bullet.
 
P:  The NEI catalog number shows it as .512-600 378E  Gunn 50 The actual wgt. using 1-25 is 605 grs.

F: And a very nice design it is too. I may have to get one if the daugther there in El Paso can make me one rather undersize! This is because my Big Fifty has a bore size somewhat smaller than the norm.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

  As I get it NEI can make you a mould a coupla thou. bigger, but I would imagine that for anything smaller they would have to make a new cherry.

PETE,

Yes, I know. It might be as well to order another tool from Paul Jones.

P:  You're losing me here tho. Does your daughter work for NEI? Or.....?

F:  I was thinking of Walt's daugther (and her husband) who are now making the NEI tools in El Paso.

Good morning,
Forrest