An interesting idea I hadn't thought about. What would be your thinking on fouling building up in the throat and then causing OAL to vary?


PETE,

Keep in mind that I'm primarily a smokeless shooter. The OAL length would only change when shooting a smokeless load that either uses no filler at all or one thatwith T/P, Poly filler or some other kind of easily compressable material over the powder.

It will not apply to compressed Black due to no space available for the bullet to move back into. And it won't work for loads like some of mine which use compressed inert material such as Hominy Grits as filler.


P:  This is something that has bothered me for many years. Since we have to loosen up neck tension to the point where the bullet isn't deformed I've often wondered if this was still tight enuf so the bullet wouldn't be pushed back as the throat fouls.

F: Here I must certainly acknowledge your far greater expiereince in shooting Black. 

My limited shooting with Black seems to indicate that it is possible to soften the fouling enough (by either blow tube or wiping) that a bullet will fit easily into the origin of rifling in a very simular fashion as it does when shooting smokeless.

P:  I know many feel that best accuracy is gotten by seating the bullets varying amounts off the rifling, but this hasn't been my experience over the years.

F: This factor seems to be up in the air for me as well. In fact, I have not run a test for it for many years.

In shooting the M1895 with either the long range SAECO as compared to the hunting NEI that there is a great deal of difference in "bullet-jump" but both loads preform very well.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

  Guess I got to jumping around to much between smokeless and black.

  My wondering about fouling buildup in the throat was directed at smokeless.

PETE,

I am the fellow who has done some considerable testing along the lines of cleaning/not cleaning the cast bullet rifle and so can offer you some results.

The rifle the two of us first met over is my Big Fifty, so it has not only relivence but is a known item.

I got this rifle assembled and began shooting it with smokeless last spring. I did the usual loading and shooting in search of a combination that worked with a couple different bullets over several different kinds of smokeless powder.

Then, when I had an initial load that showed promise I fired it for consistency and practice. It didn't prove out and I worked up another load and tested again for consistency. So far this latest combination has worked very well.

All this shooting wound up a total of over 1000 rounds over the course of the summer and during that time (heaven forbid) I never so much as passed a cleaning rod down the barrel at all. Not even to look for possible leading or other fouling related problems. Also keep in mind that the barrel was bran-new, never fired until I headed for the range the first day.

The lube build-up you note did not in fact happen to me in shooting the Big Fifty. The last shot fired before going into  black power testing was a hit in the 15 inch group at 1000 yards. After shooting black of course the rifle was cleaned carefully.

I have lost count of the rounds fired through my 44/63 Ballard on the CPA Stevens. I know I have not cleaned it this year at all.

I once had a Remington 40X in 300 Winchester that I ran through a 1000 round cast bullet no-cleanig test a long time ago and wrote about in the CBA's Fouling Shot. Nobody believed me I don't think.

It is my view (Not written in stone by the way) that a good accurate cast bullet rifle, when used with a good dependable load will deliver its best performance indefinately with no cleaning at all unless a fellow does something silly like drop it in the dirt or shoot a load that screws things up in a hurry.

P:  Even tho smokeless is considered by many to not foul the barrel this isn't the case with cast Lead bullets. The lube will slowly build up in the throat and I'm just wondering if this will push the bullet back into the case as it builds up. If it does, then will this affect accuracy?

F: If the lube does build up it sure would affect the chambering of cartridges as you say. I, however, have not seen it in practice.

I have heard from some of the fellows shooting high velocity benchrest cast bullets that lube build-up is a problem. I figure they must know what htey're talking about but it is a different game they are playing than my semi-slow more conventional cast bullet shooting.

P:  Many believe that .22 RF's need to be fired x number of rounds after they have been cleaned before they will shoot their best. A number of interesting articles by Bill Calfee in Precision Shooting during the past year point this up rather graphically. If this pertains to .22 RF then why shouldn't it pertain to other cast bullets?

F: The 22 RF is known for this. Some folks think the 22RF may be fired indefinitely with little attention. I myself was of this school until last spring when I cleaned the 22RF barrel of the CPA Stevens after shooting it all winter in the indoor Scheutzen Matches we hold here. It was leaded up something terrible! An air-gaged Douglas barrel and all the trick stuff shooting CCI Standard Velocity. I couldn't figure it out but you may be sure I'll be looking at it more carefully this coming season!

To address your question more directly I'd say that, sure, a regular center fire CB rifle is subject to a certain amount of "seasoning" before accuracy stabilizes but nothing above 1 or 2 rounds starting from clean I'd say.

P:  I clean my .22 RF's no more than twice a year, but do clean my cast bullet CF's after every outing. I've always done it this way so don't know if I'm missing something or not.

F: I do not clean the Marlin M39A very often at all. The last time I checked it was when the CPA 22RF leading scared me into looking at it and it proved to be just fine: No leading or other problems. I clean the CPA Douglas barrel every spring when I change it off for the center-fire barrel. At that time it goes into storage all summer.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

I've read this cleaning argument for years and have one interjection to make. I had a Bresein barreled 32/40 shooting 14.5 IMR4227 and Remington 2 1/2 primers, bullet with Darr lube. I did not clean it after shooting, and the barrel corroded-after cleaning one could see the roughness in the barrel. Not a lot, but enough to convince me. I know, you haven't ever cleaned and never had a problem. But.
joe b.