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Shanghai Jack
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28 30 Load Help
Jul 7th, 2026 at 8:31pm
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So doing some measurements and the RMC cases I have will hold 35 grains of 2f black or 34 grains of 1f.  I've always been of the belief that black powder should fill the case with no air space.  

These measurements would be about 15% over the old factory load.  Would it be better to back off to 30 grains and use a filler or go with the full case is better.  I've breach seated with smokeless before, but this is my first with black powder.  whats the school of thought for breach seating. 

Thanks
« Last Edit: Jul 7th, 2026 at 8:51pm by Shanghai Jack »  
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Win1906
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Re: 28 30 Load Help
Reply #1 - Jul 7th, 2026 at 11:17pm
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yes no gaps with black powder.i use a wad with mine.
  
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Dellet
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Re: 28 30 Load Help
Reply #2 - Jul 8th, 2026 at 9:29am
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If you can’t have an air space with Blackpowder, how do you breech seat or muzzle load at all?

If the bullet is not seated in the case, there is an airspace.
  
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Shanghai Jack
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Re: 28 30 Load Help
Reply #3 - Jul 8th, 2026 at 10:39am
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Dellet wrote on Jul 8th, 2026 at 9:29am:
If you can’t have an air space with Blackpowder, how do you breech seat or muzzle load at all?

If the bullet is not seated in the case, there is an airspace.


Exactly what was confusing me - thanks for explaining my poor post
  
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RSW
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Re: 28 30 Load Help
Reply #4 - Jul 8th, 2026 at 11:59am
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To breech seat without an air space:
- Fill case full of black powder to just barely below case mouth

- Press an over powder top wad (cardboard or veg) in the case mouth so it's even with case mouth. Adjust powder charge so that over powder wad is pressed on the powder and even with case mouth.

- Adjust breech seater to place bullet base so it touches the case mouth when a cartridge is chambered - or - add a felt wad between case mouth and bullet base and set bullet depth so there is a snug fit between case mouth and bullet base.
Result - no air space.

As an aside: The whole no air space is not as big an issue as sometimes stated (IMO). Back in the day (c.1890-1920) shooters who breech-muzzle loaded rammed the bullet down the barrel so it sat about 1/16" ahead of the case mouth. Literally millions of rounds were so fired without ringing the chambers. I'd call that an air space.
  

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Dellet
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Re: 28 30 Load Help
Reply #5 - Jul 8th, 2026 at 12:06pm
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RSW wrote on Jul 8th, 2026 at 11:59am:
To breech seat without an air space:
- Fill case full of black powder to just barely below case mouth

- Press an over powder top wad (cardboard or veg) in the case mouth so it's even with case mouth. Adjust powder charge so that over powder wad is pressed on the powder and even with case mouth.

- Adjust breech seater to place bullet base so it touches the case mouth when a cartridge is chambered - or - add a felt wad between case mouth and bullet base and set bullet depth so there is a snug fit between case mouth and bullet base.
Result - no air space.

As an aside: The whole no air space is not as big an issue as sometimes stated (IMO). Back in the day (c.1890-1920) shooters who breech-muzzle loaded rammed the bullet down the barrel so it sat about 1/16" ahead of the case mouth. Literally millions of rounds were so fired without ringing the chambers. I'd call that an air space.


I’m also pretty sure that the 45-70 reduced recoil load for the Calvary, 45-55-405. Had airspace, but I have not dissected one to find out if there was a filler. I have replicated the load.
  
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Shanghai Jack
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Re: 28 30 Load Help
Reply #6 - Jul 8th, 2026 at 12:13pm
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So let me rephrase a little.  With my 32-40 and other rifles that I breach seat with smokeless I use a small circle of ashless filter paper to hold the powder (usually 4227) in proximity to the primer and to keep it from spilling out.  Obviously the case is no where near filled to capacity.  However, with black powder I run into a different problem.  The 28-30 cases I have hold about 34-35 grains by weight of black powder which is above the nominal 30 grains factory load.  Should I cut back the load to 30 grains and use a filler or go with  the 35 grain load essentially filling the case .Should I top with a .003 fiber wad, a grease cookie, both or none.  

FWIW i generally seat about 1/16th inch ahead of the case mouth.  My normal filler if loading fixed bp ammunition is cream of wheat.  

Thanks
  
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Dellet
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Re: 28 30 Load Help
Reply #7 - Jul 8th, 2026 at 12:48pm
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Probably depends on the action. Strong action, I’d probably go with the full case load.

Even a model 44 in good condition would be fine.
  
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RSW
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Re: 28 30 Load Help
Reply #8 - Jul 8th, 2026 at 12:50pm
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If you are going to shoot black powder in your .28-30, .32-40, etc. - fill the case with powder, use a wad in the case mouth to hold in the powder. Wads you add only add variables that don't improve accuracy (IMO). Your .28-30 cases don't care if they have 30 or 34 grains of black powder.
Forget about over powder wads for your .32-40 smokeless loads, again, wads only add a variable that doesn't improve accuracy. Sometimes a wad or two are necessary but you got'ta experiment some to find what produces best accuracy for each rifle.
The felt wad I mentioned in my previous post works for one of my rifles but not another.
  

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oneatatime
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Re: 28 30 Load Help
Reply #9 - Jul 8th, 2026 at 12:51pm
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I would think that with BP target loads that you should use as much of the BP that you have as gives you the best accuracy. If you want to fill the case or get the best consistent burn use your filler (I use amaranth seed which is uncompressible and can be used to compress the BP and I don't think COW will work for that.) Is it that BP shouldn't be running around loose in the case for an even burn? In the military carbine loads did they use a stack of wads (like shotgun loads) to take care of that?
  
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waterman
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Re: 28 30 Load Help
Reply #10 - Jul 8th, 2026 at 2:12pm
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The 28-30 appeared circa 1900 when BP was on its way out.  A preferred accuracy powder was King's Semi-Smokeless.  4227 gives very good results with a lot less hassle than lots of BP in a small bore.  I've been shooting 11.2 gr. 4227 with a breech-seated 140 grain Hoch cast about 1:20 tin & lead, Emmerts lube, for years,  Stevens 44 action.  Works fine.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: 28 30 Load Help
Reply #11 - Jul 8th, 2026 at 2:32pm
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He may have been thinking to use it in BP only matches.
  
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Shanghai Jack
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Re: 28 30 Load Help
Reply #12 - Jul 8th, 2026 at 3:11pm
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Thanks everyone for the great information!
  
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Shanghai Jack
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Re: 28 30 Load Help
Reply #13 - yesterday at 6:20pm
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Finally got to the range today.  Thanks everyone for the information.  1885 winchester with Stevens rebore and rechamber.  Shooting 12.1 grains of 4227 with a 1/4 inch wad of single ply tissue.  140 grain Mos bullet supplied by member here.  16x unertle.  Breach seated.  Gun seemed to love the bullet.  Took 4 rounds to walk it in.  I'm cleaning this rifle up and retiring it in a position of honor.
  
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