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question about 40-50 SS brass (Read 239 times)

bullshop Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 372 Joined: Sep 14^th, 2017	question about 40-50 SS brass Jun 12^th, 2026 at 9:51pm	Print Post
	Still don't have my rifle so cant yet find out on my own. Prepping some brass made from 303 Brit and wondering if the necks will need to be thinned. The necks at the case length for the 40-50 at 1.85" are below where the shoulder was on the 303 case so getting pretty thick. You folks shooting .408" to .410" diameter bullets are you having to turn case necks from cases made from 303 Britt or 30-40 Krag?


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vbull Full Member Offline Posts: 115 Location: Lake George, Champlain region Joined: Sep 19^th, 2004	Re: question about 40-50 SS brass Reply #1 - yesterday at 6:03am	Print Post
	I shoot a .38-50 with cases made with both .303 and .30-40 brass. The .303 brass has thinner walls than the .30-40 I shoot the .30-40 brass unsized and the bullet is a slip fit. The .303 brass required a slight sizing to get the bullet to slip fit with just a slight tension, otherwise it would not remain in the cartridge when inverted in the ammo box. Be aware they both leave a slight internal ring when blown out where the shoulder is formed in the parent brass. I don't find it on all the brass but enough to say so. Only a couple thousands of a ridge about 1/2" below the case mouth.


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bullshop Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 372 Joined: Sep 14^th, 2017	Re: question about 40-50 SS brass Reply #2 - yesterday at 9:51am	Print Post
	Thank you for that information Sir Vbull . It is very helpful. I am thinking that since you are sizing to 38 caliber and I am sizing to 40 caliber that my case necks will be thinner than yours. I am sizing cases using a set of RCBS 40-70 SS dies because that is what I have. This die set has an inside neck expander of .407" diameter and it is definitely expanding the case necks. I used a set of case expanding mandrels to initially expand the cases as far down as they would reach then ran them through the 40-70 FL die. All I can do now is wait for the rifle to get here then further the learning process.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18048 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: question about 40-50 SS brass Reply #3 - yesterday at 10:22am	Print Post
	Those very short cases will be even thinner once they're stretched out to 2.38" to make them a .40-70SS. If anything you'll need to anneal them so they don't split at the first firing, and wont have issues with any size bullet for the groove diameter.

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joelpend Junior Member Offline Posts: 69 Location: Central North Carolina Joined: Dec 29^th, 2015	Re: question about 40-50 SS brass Reply #4 - yesterday at 11:05am	Print Post
	The 40-50SS seems like it would be ideal for .40 smokeless. I do not currently have a .40 and was thinking if one is in my future it should be a 40-50SS.


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bullshop Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 372 Joined: Sep 14^th, 2017	Re: question about 40-50 SS brass Reply #5 - yesterday at 11:30am	Print Post
	The one I am waiting on is built on a #5 roller. That should allow a lot of flexibility with loads. Max safe pressure range should be about equal to the lever action repeater range for cartridges like the 30-30. Should double nicely as a small game round using the lighter weight cast bullets intended for the 41 mag.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18048 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: question about 40-50 SS brass Reply #6 - yesterday at 12:01pm	Print Post
	My apologies on my reply mentioning .40-70SS as I saw the mention of using .40-70SS dies and got confused. I use both .303 British or .30-40 Krag brass cut down for my two .40-50SS rifles, and never have had to thin case necks using a .409" bullet for my .408" groove barrel. I rough cut the cases at the shoulder and then run them through my Lyman M die with a .410" expander. Then final trim to length and clean up the cuts. My bullets finger seat easily and still chamber without thinning the necks inside or out. My loads use 4198 on an original BP action Rolling Block. I have a 34" Green Mountain barrel, and I'm loading with 4198 and a 370 grain cast bullet RCBS CSA mold. My loads are kept to BP levels at around 1375 fps and do great out to 500 yds. Pretty good at 650 yds. even, but haven't tried these lighter bullets out further.

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cadyk Participating Member Offline Posts: 11 Joined: Apr 13^th, 2026	Re: question about 40-50 SS brass Reply #7 - yesterday at 5:16pm	Print Post
	Bullshop, Since your cases are considerably shorter than the .40-77 SS, that sizing die may not size them adequately. My .40-40 SS RCBS sizing die, new in ~1990, sizes the shortened Hornady cases must enough to fit my chamber. I don't remember which rifle/chamber you have, but you need to be getting the neck down just below 0.430" in order to have some neck tension. Hope you don't have this problem, but remember that the 2.5"die sizes somewhere in the 0.428-0.430" range, and it's a straight taper from ~0.455" to ~0.430-0.432 (Shiloh chamber), so the neck at the end of the. .40-50 may only get you to 0.437 or 0.438" at the neck. cadyk


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18048 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: question about 40-50 SS brass Reply #8 - yesterday at 5:53pm	Print Post
	I haven't had to size any of my cases made from .30-3 or .30-40, as they are smaller than the chamber, and once the necks are expanded they're nearly formed. First firing makes them final form to my chambers and then the .40-70SS dies are used just to seat bullets and no sizing done. One of the easiest cases I make from donor brass and less work than many others.

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kootne Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 478 Location: Libby, Mt. Joined: Mar 6^th, 2012	Re: question about 40-50 SS brass Reply #9 - yesterday at 6:00pm	Print Post
	I've got (2) 40/50 straight rifles and the chambers on both are pretty tight. I had exactly the issue you are anticipating. I used an RCBS Hand Case Neck Trimmer. It turns the outside of the neck. Once they are fire formed they work very well, having nearly perfect case concentricity. Without neck turning the bullet would swage down when seated, or if annealed the case bulged enough the shells would not chamber. I have gotten groups under 1 MOA at 1 & 200 yds often enough to have a lot of respect for that cartridge. Using a 360gr. Mos bullet 20-1, .030" wad from John King, 1.5F Swiss from the metal can days and 210 Federal primers.

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bullshop Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 372 Joined: Sep 14^th, 2017	Re: question about 40-50 SS brass Reply #10 - yesterday at 9:27pm	Print Post
	I am using the 40-70 FL die to size the base of the case. I used a 41 mag die to size the necks. Made one cartridge today using an NEI mold that was for the SSK 41 super mag a 300 grain truncated cone design. Sized the bullet at .410" Still waiting for the rifle. Supposed to be here Monday. If the one cartridge is too tight I will have to look at smaller diameter bullets and possibly neck turning the brass. Thank you Mr. Kootne for your input.


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1Hawkeye Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 269 Location: South end of Northern Virginia Joined: Jun 29^th, 2019	Re: question about 40-50 SS brass Reply #11 - yesterday at 10:51pm	Print Post
	Ya gotta love Sharps cartridges. They kept case lengths simple. .40-50 ss = .40 1 7/8" .40-70 = .40 2 1/2" .45-70 = .45 2 1/10" ect ect its like they wanted us future generations to be able to rough cut the parent brass case to length with a harbor freight baby chop saw before truing them up on a case trimmer.


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bullshop Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 372 Joined: Sep 14^th, 2017	Re: question about 40-50 SS brass Reply #12 - Today at 9:24am	Print Post
	They didnt plan on us going metric.


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Deadeye Bly Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1145 Location: Stephens City Joined: Feb 25^th, 2011	Re: question about 40-50 SS brass Reply #13 - Today at 9:37am	Print Post
	I use both Krag brass and 303 British brass. In my Shiloh with a tight chamber I need to turn the necks on the 303 brass. In my Maynard that I short chambered with a Pacific 40/70 reamer I can use 303 brass as is.


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bullshop Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 372 Joined: Sep 14^th, 2017	Re: question about 40-50 SS brass Reply #14 - Today at 10:58am	Print Post
	Interesting. I wondered about doing that , short chambering with a 40-70 reamer for a 40-50 chamber but it seemed to me that in so doing the case head area of the chamber would be undersize due to the taper of the case design. Deadeye Bly wrote Today at 9:37am: I use both Krag brass and 303 British brass. In my Shiloh with a tight chamber I need to turn the necks on the 303 brass. In my Maynard that I short chambered with a Pacific 40/70 reamer I can use 303 brass as is.


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