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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Schoyen Style Stock on a Ballard (Read 315 times)
bobw
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Schoyen Style Stock on a Ballard
Yesterday at 6:59pm
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Since it's been awhile since I posted anything of any substance, I thought I would throw this out for folks to take a look at.  I've been coasting the last couple months, working on odds and ends and helping a guy build a rifle, while hunting parts for a Singer Rifle build, that should be getting going shortly, and this Ballard.

I was looking for wood and a buttplate for this rifle.  The wood I ended up using, I already had, but I was looking for something different.  Got tired of looking at blanks so I moved on with what I had!  Finding the buttplate was just plain luck.  I had bought two other plates, thinking I could make them work by cutting them up and welding, but that ended up being nearly impossible, so I threw that idea out.  A gentleman here on the this forum contacted me and offered exactly what I needed.   It's what I would call German Silver and should polish up nice or could be plated.  I'll show more on it later.

I plan on moving quickly through this thread.  Most of what I do when stocking a gun is well explained in my past threads, so I will just touch on them and not bore everyone with those details again.

This first picture is what the stock on the rifle looked like when I got the rifle.  Not overly attractive, hope the new one will be better.  There is a story on this rifle that I will tell if given permission from the owner.  This story explains why the stocks being replaced.

The second picture shows a Schoyen style stock that is close to what the final stock will look like.  The problem with this stock is the through bolt.  With the standard Ballard tang this will not work because the bolt would come out above the buttplate.  To use it, the tang would have to be modified, or have been modified previously.

This third picture shows the original tang was never modified, so we had to go with a Schoyen style that did not have as much drop.

This fourth and fifth picture is of my Schoyen Rifle which uses the maximum drop allowed with the Ballard standard through bolt.  As can be seen, it comes out as high as one can get on the stock.
Bob
  

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bobw
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Re: Schoyen Style Stock on a Ballard
Reply #1 - yesterday at 7:41pm
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One of the buttplates I first ordered was the CPA Schoyen as shown here in this first picture.  Obviously too big.  But, I thought I could modify it in order to end up with something close to what I needed.

Here in this second picture I'm showing my Schoyen with the plate that the gentleman here on the forum offered me.  The original plate is fairly small at 1.40 wide and 1.60 tall.

And then the final drawing of the stock.  I just about messed this stock up. I was ready the cut the head of the stock out when I realized the rifle, I had been using to draw the design, were all non-pistol grip frames.  At the last second, for some reason, I decided to measure the actual rifle being stock and realized it is a pistol grip stock which is nearly 1/4 inch taller.  The drawing shows the changes, to the front of the grip, I had to make between the two frame styles.

Photos 4 and 5 are both sides of the stock with an early version of the stock laid out on it.
Bob
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Schoyen Style Stock on a Ballard
Reply #2 - yesterday at 7:54pm
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It's looking very nice. I like the wood, too!!
  

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bobw
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Re: Schoyen Style Stock on a Ballard
Reply #3 - yesterday at 8:27pm
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I have permission to tell the story of this rifle, so here it is as best I know it.  The rifle belongs to Tom Rowe so hopefully he will pop in and correct me where I may be wrong.

As we already know it is a Ballard but, what is unusual is that it has a Remington Walker barrel on it.  The top of the barrel is marked as such.  

At some point the rifle was disassembled and the owner passed away before it was reassembled.  The estate sold all the pieces at auction, separately as parts.  I believe it was John Ambers that got wind of the parts being sold and ended up with all the rifle parts, except the wood, and got it reassembled. Although, I have a tendency to believe the forearm is original to the barrel since it appears to be a Remington forearm with the metal tip.  John installed the stock that I have shown it currently has, just so it had one on it.  A friend of Tom's saw a picture of this rifle years ago, maybe 40 years ago, and remembered it having a Schoyen style stock.  So this is the reason for the restock I am doing on it.

For the record I started this stock on January 22 when I took this first picture.

The through hole was drilled in my metal lathe with the drill bit in the chuck and the other end supported with a solid center.  I missed, on the 12 inch hole, by 1/8th inch of the target point on the butt end.  This is always a bit of an unknown as to what might happen.  Of course the ends need to be located correctly in relation to the stock pattern before drilling the hole.

While this second picture shows the tang already in most of the way, I started the tang hole with a reamer that is the same size as the rear portion of the tang.  The  reamer has a pilot that keeps the reamer inline with the through hole. This reamer was not my idea but was Greg's (GT) here on this forum.

Picture 3 shows the head of the stock touching the frame.  

Picture 4 shows what the head of the wood looks like as it is fitted up the the frame.  There is a wood extension that is fitted into the back of the frame, which can also be seen here.

This last picture shows the stock fully headed up to the frame, and the layout used to locate the through bolt hole in relation to the stock pattern.  As can be seen, I keep everything oversized until I know exactly where the frame is pointing.  I can still make minor changes at this point.
Bob
  

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Schutzenbob
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Re: Schoyen Style Stock on a Ballard
Reply #4 - Today at 12:46am
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About 25 years ago, a local guy who was a gunsmith of sorts, showed up with a nice hiwall action with what appeared to be a Schoyen/Peterson offhand stock, only that it was made of pine with slices of wood and putty. I tried to buy it but couldn’t. What I believe it was, was a template that could be fitted to a particular shooter and then used as a model or pantographed in Walnut.
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Re: Schoyen Style Stock on a Ballard
Reply #5 - Today at 9:31am
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Schutzenbob wrote Today at 12:46am:
About 25 years ago, a local guy who was a gunsmith of sorts, showed up with a nice hiwall action with what appeared to be a Schoyen/Peterson offhand stock, only that it was made of pine with slices of wood and putty. I tried to buy it but couldn’t. What I believe it was, was a template that could be fitted to a particular shooter, and then used as a model or pantographed in Walnut.

A friend has made try stocks for himself the very same way for 40 years. Some never got past the Bondo stage, some were sent to be duplicated.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Schoyen Style Stock on a Ballard
Reply #6 - Today at 10:48am
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I love the look of the new stock Bob, but the original ain't too shabby either! That would find a home on one of my Ballard rifles if I owned that.
Henry Simmons was Schoyen's stock maker and all those exotic stocks on Schoyen rifles were Simmons work. He made some gorgeous stocks during his association with Schoyen & Peterson.
  

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bobw
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Re: Schoyen Style Stock on a Ballard
Reply #7 - Today at 10:57am
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On to the buttplate.

I usually do the minimum to a buttplate in order to get it fitted and attached to the stock.  

The first surface cleaned up is the large surface that contacts the wood, it would be impossible to get a good fit without having a nice surface here.  I clean it up with files and sandpaper getting it nice and flat. It also needs to be as square as possible to the prongs.  This first picture shows this surface.  The area with lines through it was reduced, hollowing out the area.  This make it easier to fit to the wood. 

This second picture shows what the plate looks like when ready to start fitting.  The sides and ends are cleaned up and shaped to what is wanted for the wood shape.  You can see it is a pretty rough sand cast plate.  When I do the final clean up and polishing I attach it to a piece of wood that can be clamped in a vice, making it much easier to hold, rather than the way I show it held in the previous pictures.

I did have an issue with the casting.  A large void showed up as I was cleaning it. Actually there are two voids.  The other, much smaller, it there close to the large one.  I filled both.

This third picture shows the void.  It was too deep to file out.

Picture 4, Since this is a silver colored plate I filed the void with solder.  The filler can still be seen here.

Picture 5, This shows the filed out finish.  It will still be seen when fully polished but unless you know it's there it should not be noticed.  It may completely disappear with age.  If these plates were readily available I would have replaced it but since they are not I needed to run with what I have.
Bob
  

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bobw
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Re: Schoyen Style Stock on a Ballard
Reply #8 - Today at 11:25am
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This next picture shows the plate mostly fitted.  As can be seen the wood was trimmed closer to size at the plate.  I do this because it is much easier to work a narrow surface, over the wide, when removing the inletting black.

This second picture shows the final surface after fitting.  When fitting a plate like this one, with no features to help with consistent placement, I use pencil marks, so that I know I am placing it back on the stock the same every time.  You will notice a centering line at both ends plus a line just to the left of the through bolt hole for the vertical positioning of the plate on the wood.

It hard to see in this third picture, but there is a scribed line on each end, which aligns with the pencil line on the wood when fitting.

What I have not mentioned is all the layout lines I use.  Two of the most important are the centering lines at the top and bottom of the stock that align the comb and toe line to the frame.  These lines are very carefully laid out.

In this fourth picture you can see two lines for the toe.  The one on the left is the actual center line.  I moved the toe of the plate slightly to the right because when looking down the bottom of the stock I thought it looked was off slightly to the left.  This was probably an optical illusion, but putting a slight amount of right cast into, was just a "makes me feel better move"! Cheesy

This last picture is just better showing the alignment line I used to keep the plate straight with the line on the top, or comb, of the wood.
Bob
  

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bobw
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Re: Schoyen Style Stock on a Ballard
Reply #9 - Today at 12:18pm
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I am now ready to install the screws.

Picture 1, Placement in this stock is a bit different because of the hole for the through bolt, its head and support spacer.  The support spacer hole is 3/4 inch so I needed to locate it on the outside of the plate so I didn't put the screw through it.  The black line on the plate shows the edge of that hole.

Picture 2, Holding a plate to the stock to drill these holes is alway interesting, this one especially!  There is not enough room for the normal clamps I would use.  So a long clamp and a step cut into the front of the stock worked well.  The prongs of the plate are tightly spaced so it took an extended holder, to hold all the tools needed to make the screw holes.  This setup in I'm my mill because of the way I do these screws.

I make all my screws.  This is what they look like while still in the lathe.  There is quite a lot going on here. 

This is a straight  #10-20 screw thread. Looking at it closely will show the threads are not sharp.  My theory is sharp threads cut the wood fibers, and this is at least part of the reason for thread pullout with wood screws. This thread just compresses the wood, keeping the integrity of the the long wood fiber in place.   

The small tip on the end is needed to help the threads to start in the predrilled hole.  It acts like the sharp point on a regular wood screw.

These screws are hard to install and take some time, even using a screw lube.  Once in, they are much easier to get in and out and this gets better the more they are used. 

The long head is for installation and building.  They will be fitted and indexed in the end.

The long shank under the head has a purpose I will discuss coming up.

Picture 4,  Every operation for the screw is performed while in the mill and not moved until completed.  The screw is actually made after its hole is machine in the plate.  The clearance hole for the thread is done first, then the shank portion of the screw is cut and lastly the head counter bore is cut.

The shank portion is cut through the plate and into the wood a short amount.  The same size all the way.  The shank of the screw, under the head, is sized in the lathe to fit this hole with a small amount of clearance.  It then acts like a dowel and no matter how many time the screw is removed and replaced the buttplate comes back the same place every time.

Picture 5,  The initial slot is simply cut with a hacksaw.  The final slot will be cut in the mill with a slitting saw.
Bob
  

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bobw
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Re: Schoyen Style Stock on a Ballard
Reply #10 - Today at 12:21pm
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The buttplate is now in place and the stock is attached to the action frame.  I am now ready to start the fun stuff...shaping.

I guess I should mention flow.  The buttplate needs to be positioned correctly so the flow, off the wood stock, is consistent and smooth looking from the side profile, top and bottom.  This is done with wood shaping as well as slightly reshaping the buttplate.  This is the reason I leave extra wood top and bottom.  I can make the adjustment to get what I want.
bob

« Last Edit: Today at 12:26pm by bobw »  

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bobw
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Re: Schoyen Style Stock on a Ballard
Reply #11 - Today at 1:00pm
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At this point, in stocking a gun from a blank, is getting excess wood off as quickly and easily as possible.

When I was younger I just rasp it off, but now days I use a 4 inch angle grinder with a course sanding disc.  It removes wood quickly and without any grabbing that could cause issues.  These first two picture show what it looks like when the grinding is completed.   

There is still plenty left for opportunities to use a rasp!

The next thing, on the to do list, is get the stock shaped to the final profile.  There is no way to start shaping until this is done.  These next two pictures show each side after the profile is done.  This is done completely by hand and eye, with a rasp.  I do start out with a pattern line but adjust as necessary as I go for the proper flow from the front, off the frame, through the buttplate.  I have left wood at the bottom of the grip.  I was still deciding what I wanted to do there.

In this last picture I have roughed out the cheek rest saddle before starting any shaping of the rest of the stock.  I needed to know roughly how it was going to set and proportionally looked on the stock.
Bob

  

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bobw
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Re: Schoyen Style Stock on a Ballard
Reply #12 - Today at 1:19pm
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Whilel doing any shaping, layout lines are erased by rasping, but alway reapplied immediately.  These are the pencil lines on the wood you will see in many of the picture.

Sometimes I am my own worst enemy.  I completely forgot about the thin area at the top of the stock, where the bore for the through bolt is.  While really going after wood removal on the side of the stock, and with a very course rasp, I pulled off a chunk of wood over this bore.  Years ago I would have been really upset about this, but anymore I know I can fix thing like this easily.  It's all part of stock work, things are going to happen and you need to know how to fix them.  Not a big deal. 

This first picture shows what happened.  Really a nice clean break.

Picture 2. I loosed up the buttplate, little glue and clamp to fix it.  Tighten the buttplate back up to hold the chip in position. 

Picture 3.  The piece is clamped in place, but I'm really showing the modeling of the wood that has taken place to this point.

Picture 4.  The wood chip is repaired and no longer can be seen.  The stock has also had further modeling or shaping.

In picture 5, I have started the shaping on the cheek rest side.  This side is quite a bit tougher to shape than the off side.
Bob
  

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Re: Schoyen Style Stock on a Ballard
Reply #13 - Today at 1:28pm
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These two pictures show the completely roughed out stock, with a rasp, ready for sanding.  These pictures were as of yesterday just before starting on the forearm.  Still have a few hours of work to do but coming along nicely.
  

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bobw
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Re: Schoyen Style Stock on a Ballard
Reply #14 - Today at 1:45pm
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Got a good start on the forearm yesterday.  

In this first picture I am cutting out the rough barrel channel.  I do this in my mill....the best router I have ever owned!

Picture 2.  The forearm is completely fitted to the barrel. This is simply done with inletting black on the barrel, installing the forearm, tap it down, remove the forearm and then removing the areas of wood with black on them.  Do this many times and you are done.

Picture 3.  The forearm blanks are usually quit wide so here I have narrowed both sides and have the profile located on it.

Picture 4.  I simply rough bandsaw to the profile lines.  I will then finish the shape of the profile with a rasp.

Picture 5.  This is what the rifle looked like when I finished yesterday and where I will begin today.  
Bob

  

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