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DoubleD
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Am I missing something?
Today at 8:02am
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I am reading Wolfs book on the 45/70 and Trapdoor Springfields.

He has a section on using cross sectional area to determine the correct bullet  size for you bore.   

I am missing the magic.   

What's the difference between slugging the bore and measuring the slug versus computing the cross sectional area?

It seems to me that the first step in computing the cross sectional area of the bore is to measure it.   

As I sit here it seems to me as I run the numbers through my calculator to get the CSA, I am lead right back to the number I got when I slugged the bore. 

1. Determine cross sectional area of bore.
2. Find a bullet diameter a .001  or so larger with a near equivalent CSA

or

Measure the slug, add .001.  Done.  When I do the math the two numbers come out the same.

(Typos aside)  Am I missing something?
  

Douglas, Ret.
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1Hawkeye
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Re: Am I missing something?
Reply #1 - Today at 8:38am
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Nah just fancy lingo , two routes to the same place.
  
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Dellet
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Re: Am I missing something?
Reply #2 - Today at 9:10am
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Probably because it’s tough to “just measure” the slug of barrels with odd numbers of groove and certain rifling shapes.
  
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yamoon
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Re: Am I missing something?
Reply #3 - Today at 11:09am
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Dellet wrote Today at 9:10am:
Probably because it’s tough to “just measure” the slug of barrels with odd numbers of groove and certain rifling shapes.

I have a rifle with nearly flat bottom grooves. I have never gotten a slug measurement that satisfies me. The closest is a tight wrap with a beer can and subtracting twice the metal thickness, is this the measurement I should use.
Mike
  
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DoubleD
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Re: Am I missing something?
Reply #4 - Today at 11:41am
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For long I used the old millwright method of rolling the of odd numbered rifling slug between the slack jaws of dial caliper and noting the high number that repeated.   I usually go the standard number reported in literature.  Sometimes slightly off in a worn barrel.  

Later I found a v-mic at a reasonable price.  Checked the slugs against the v-mic and got the same numbers.   

Somewhere is the past some, I think here on ASSRA some one challenge me on this and said he was going verify with sine blocks and a surface plate.  He said he was in his shop's gauging room setting everything thing up when one of the companies old engineers came and asked him what he was doing.  When he explained, the old Engineer showed him how do it with dial caliper--and he got the same measurement with the sine block as the caliper.

I'm not after the kind of accuracy some of you guys are looking for, but using this method has been good enough for me.

All bullets flying straight, not sideways and all bullets hitting close together- 25 yard moa would be awesome.

« Last Edit: Today at 11:46am by DoubleD »  

Douglas, Ret.
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Dellet
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Re: Am I missing something?
Reply #5 - Today at 12:19pm
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The original directions that were questioned were to “determine the cross section of the bore”, doesn’t tell you how to go about it. In theory with an even number of parallel grooves you could stick a set of calipers in the muzzle and get a direct number. Not so with an odd number.

There are a lot of ways to do it based on tools available and your sense of humor.

I generally use the twist the bullet in the caliper method, that is determining the cross section. Then size the bullet on the fat side.

Just pointing why you’ll get a bad number just stick a set of calipers on a three groove bullet and get an accurate diameter. Kind of like trying to figure out what diameter circle fits in a triangle. 
  
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texasmac
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Re: Am I missing something?
Reply #6 - Today at 4:24pm
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Guys,

See my article on several techniques to accurately measure groove diameters of odd-groove bores.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Wayne

  

NRA Life (Benefactor & President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF Member, Author & Publisher of the Browning BPCR book
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bullshop
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Re: Am I missing something?
Reply #7 - Today at 6:55pm
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Its a very useful book filled with helpful information on trapdoor rifles. Dont dwell on its imperfections gorge on the meat.
I have had the book for 30 years and I still occasionally go back to it if I may have forgotten something like maybe the proper use of the Buffington sight with the different surplus loads or some such. 
Wanna hear a funny ?  My Dad told me when he was a young man that the state of Montana moved some problem bears out of the park and into the Bitterroot where he lived. The bears started killing cattle so F&G hired some local boys to hunt and kill the bears of which there were five.  My Dad got four of the five with the trapdoor 45-70.  He said he bought the rifle with a case of BP ammo for $5.00.  Wow ! Now the original arsenal ammo will bring that much per round.  He told me his horse got one of the bears because he was asleep in the saddle and when the horse walked up to a water troth a bear stood up that had been napping on the other side. He said his horse bucked him off and the rifle fired and when he jumped up found the bear was shot dead.  Good horse !
  
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