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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Rifling twist rate of Stevens 25-20 SS (Read 344 times)
Dellet
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Re: Rifling twist rate of Stevens 25-20 SS
Reply #15 - yesterday at 2:46pm
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bullshop wrote yesterday at 1:44pm:
Well then I will have to try bullets under 85 grain weight.  I do have the Lyman 257420 mold but for the most part with these low pressure/velocity type cartridges I try to stay away from gas checks.  Leaving off the gas check in that short bullet eliminate a large percentage of the bullet bearing surface so I wouldn't expect good shooting without the gas check but you never know until you try. 
Trying to remember what I have available I seem to remember an Arsenal Molds 60 grain flat nose plain base.  I will have to check my inventory .  If I am remembering correctly that should work good.


I don’t remember which rifle I was considering it for, but I’m sure it was for an original 25-20 SS. So no faster than 1/12. At one time you offered a 25 caliber 40 Rod bullet. That bullet showed that it should work on paper. Never got around to ordering any.  It would be worth a try.
  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Rifling twist rate of Stevens 25-20 SS
Reply #16 - yesterday at 3:07pm
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As I recall, A.C. Gould chronicled the development of what was called "the .25 Caliber Cartridge" from its inception by F. J. "J. Francis" Rabbeth to its launch as a factory cartridge, in his Modern American Rifles.

It was the "small game express rifle" of its time, like the .22 Hornet was 40 years later.  The goal was a cartridge of smaller bore, flatter trajectory and more accuracy than the .32-20 with the relatively easy fouling management of that cartridge.  It was originally developed with a 77-gr bullet, and Stevens and Maynard set their rifling twists in accordance with this length. However, when the ammunition companies started loading it, they went with an 85-gr bullet as a standard.

"Thus," Mr. Gould sighed, "A superior hunting cartridge was transformed into a mediocre target cartridge."

I find in my own .25-20s that the bullet holes sometimes get slightly oval once past 100 yards if the weights are close to 90 gr.  The 77-gr bullets exhibit no evidence of this.  I mostly shoot mine at the usual plinking/hunting distances, so I mostly use the weights of 77 gr and under. The 257420 is pretty good also.

The mutant .25-20 target cartridges hand loaded for target shooting today use bullets of 120 gr, but the rifling twists are in the 10" area.  Back then, a fast twist was thought to be incompatible with black powder, retaining more fouling and perhaps stripping the bullet as it went down the barrel.  Of course, modern BPCR shooters have thoroughly discredited this notion.
  
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bullshop
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Re: Rifling twist rate of Stevens 25-20 SS
Reply #17 - yesterday at 4:19pm
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All righty then lets do this if you fellas dont mind.  With help from you that know and have experience lets design a 25-20 SS specific bullet.  Anyone with any ideas or opinions as well as historical knowledge  on what it should be please contribute your thoughts. I will foot the bill and have a mold made. We will then add it to our mold inventory and make the bullets available for purchase. When we finalize a design anyone desiring a copy can get one at whatever the prices is from the mold maker plus shipping.  I would probably go with Accurate Molds as the maker because he allows custom tweaking from catalog designs or a completely new design that he will then catalog.  So lets get started.  I will go first and say from what I have read here something about 77 grain in a soft say BHN-7 to 10 alloy. That still leaves a lot to design like nose shape , drive bands, lube grooves (weather for BP or smokeless) and what ever else we can think of.  So dont be shy step right up and understand no one is committed to buying anything accept me.
  
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bullshop
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Re: Rifling twist rate of Stevens 25-20 SS
Reply #18 - yesterday at 5:27pm
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Here is a link to our 25 caliber list    (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

I had completely forgotten about the 75 grain Rapine. I dont recall ever having used it. It came from an estate sale with about seven or eight other Rapine molds. Lord willing it will be front and center very soon.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Rifling twist rate of Stevens 25-20 SS
Reply #19 - yesterday at 6:18pm
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OK. I dug out the Shoyen/Peterson mold. It was made using a Winchester one piece mold/handle that they inset with a brass block that you just might make out was slightly bow shaped and retained it in a similarly bow shaped slot in the iron block. The top was faced off and the alignment pin was also faced off. The sprue plate was refitted as was its stop pin. The handles were clearly marked "25-20 S.S." either by Winchester (anyone have one marked this way?) or by S/P. The inserted block was then cut for the bullet as shown. In 1 to 20 the bullet weighs 77.4 grains.
OK, now the kicker. The bullet is tapered. The top band is .254, the next is .256, the next is .258, and the base is .260. I should have measured the length but I will do that and modify the post.
« Last Edit: yesterday at 6:24pm by oneatatime »  
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bullshop
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Re: Rifling twist rate of Stevens 25-20 SS
Reply #20 - yesterday at 8:59pm
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I went and dug out the Rapine mold for the 75 grain bullet and it is much the same as the one pictured accept the meplate might be a wee bit larger.   I dont know how to add pictures .
  
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