Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Detailed Metal Finishing - Buttplate as an example (Read 930 times)
ssdave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2068
Location: Eastern Oregon
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Detailed Metal Finishing - Buttplate as an example
Dec 18th, 2025 at 8:52pm
Print Post  
I'm going to go over something I don't see a lot here, that is quite applicable to gunsmithing on fine rifles.

That is, detail metalwork and finishing.  I'm going to use a buttplate I'm currently working on as an example.   

I have a little bit of background in metal finishing.  I worked as a bench jeweler for several years, and when you're the apprentice, one of the things you learn first, and do for the entire shop, is finish polish the work.   

A few of the lessons the master in the shop taught me, that have stuck with me through the years were:

1)  You have to learn to use a file effectively.
2)  Using a file correctly will keep all your lines straight, and planar, without gouges, divots, and scratches.
3)  When you're working on a piece, you need to know what you want it to look like, use every step in the process to make it the shape to match your vision, and never let the mechanics of the finishing process dictate what the piece comes out like.
4)  You have to go through all the steps in the shaping/finishing process, never skipping them to get top results.
5)  Mechanical polishing is never a substitute for proper shaping, preparation, and finishing.

In my example I'm using here, I'm starting with a pretty standard 2 prong buttplate casting as received from CPA, Track of the Wolf, etc.

I detest working from castings, but they're a necessary evil.  Whether they're investment cast, sand cast, or mold cast, they always have a rough rind.  I always file the mating surfaces where they meet wood down to clean steel and fit the wood and metal together before starting in on the finishing.  If you don't shape it first, do the wood, and then run into sand pits and porosity, you can end up with the plate undersize for the wood.

Here's a picture of the casting I'm starting with, it's been edge filed and fit to the wood stock.  I'm going to start in finishing it by filing the rind off, and shaping it to the detail I want in the final piece.

Initially I'm not worried about the surface finish, as I know a lot of filing will be needed to remove the rind, so I clamp it in a vise without worry.  I use a pretty coarse metal rasp to remove the surface.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

I'll continue in another post.


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ssdave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2068
Location: Eastern Oregon
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Detailed Metal Finishing - Buttplate as an example
Reply #1 - Dec 18th, 2025 at 10:24pm
Print Post  
To use the file effectively, it needs to be slid along the work linearly, with about a 30 degree angle to the workpiece, while simultaneously pushing the file across the work.  This way, the teeth do a shearing action on the metal, cutting smoothly and evenly.  What you don't want to do is file like most people file, in fast, sawing motion strokes perpendicular to the work.  That leaves uneven surfaces and gouges in the surface.

In the photos in the last post, you can see the angle I have used to hold the file, while pushing it across.   

You can see here how I've removed the rind using that filing technique:

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

The next couple photos show why I hate working with castings.  As you file away the rind, you find that there's little pits below the surface of the good metal, that makes you have to file a bunch more metal away to get beneath them.  Sometimes I just give up and leave a few, there's too much metal removal, and sometimes there's new pits exposed that bubbles under the surface.


(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Here's new pits being exposed by the filing:

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

After I have filed away the rind, I resort to using power equipment, judiciously.  John King once told me that there's no virtue in slaving away at something that can be done quickly by machine.  I appreciate that advice, and use it.  So, once I have filed the rind and casting seam away and got the surface flat, I use an 80 grit sanding flap wheel with my Foredom Flex Shaft to take out most of the file marks, and get the surface ready to start smoothing and finishing.  The flap wheel leaves the surface a bit wavy, but I'll block that out in the next operation.   

Here's where I deviate away from typical metal finishers.  On something like this, most metal finishers would simply use the flap wheels in finer and finer grits till the surface is finely sanded, and then use the buffer to polish.  I want to control the fine details in the work, and not have a wavy finish, so I'll approach it differently.  In my next post I'll show a "secret" that helps do fine detail, flat finish.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ssdave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2068
Location: Eastern Oregon
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Detailed Metal Finishing - Buttplate as an example
Reply #2 - Dec 18th, 2025 at 11:27pm
Print Post  
This is something the master in the trade shop showed me, that I've never seen anybody else do.  

This is how to make "sandpaper files".  

The need for sandpaper files comes from the desire to make things flat and planar.  If you hold sandpaper with your fingers, it follows the surface contours, and polishes it smoother, but doesn't keep it flat.  In keeping with the objective that you want to pick what your surface is like, and then work towards that every step, you need to be able to smooth out file marks and mechanical sanding marks while making and keeping a flat surface.  The filing operation if done by shearing while pushing the file two directions, makes a flat, planar surface.  If you can do the same with sanding, you'll have a good finish.

To make sandpaper files, rip some hardwood (mahogony or walnut is what I typically use) into 3/4" x 1/4" x 13 to 14" lengths.  Make sure it's smooth without saw swirl marks, plane or sand them out if needed.  keep the corners sharp.  

Place a sheet of wet/dry silicone carbide grit down on the table.  Align the wood strip along the short edge, perfectly aligned with the top and edge.  Using a moderately dull knife blade, lightly score the paper along the wood edge.  What you're trying for is just enough score to make it fold easily and sharp.  Turn the block up, folding the paper as you do.  Push the wood back tight into the corner of the paper, and score again.  Fold, score, repeat, until the paper is wound tightly around the wood, with sharp, square corners.  Trim off the last sliver if needed by scoring all the way through the paper.

Now, secure with an ordinary thumb tack at the handle end.  Twist in most of the way, and then tap tight with a hammer.

The paper will now stay in place on the block, tight and flat.  I write the grit of the paper on the handle with sharpie.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
[url=https://ibb.co/DgPmPDDV] (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)[/url
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ssdave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2068
Location: Eastern Oregon
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Detailed Metal Finishing - Buttplate as an example
Reply #3 - Dec 18th, 2025 at 11:27pm
Print Post  
You use the sandpaper files exactly like a metal file.  Push away from you, while also sliding sideways to make a diagonal pattern, just like the one I showed with the file earlier.  

You can angle the sandpaper filing direction to be opposite or square to the file marks.  This lets you see how it is cutting, and tell when all the file marks are gone.  Do the same as you change grits, to see the last grits marks.

A note on filing.  This advice seems odd, but is the key to successful finish work.  The file cuts by shearing off pieces of metal like a chisel.  You can, with experience, feel how it is cutting, and can adjust your speed, how hard you press, and the angle to make it cut best.  Learn to feel when it's "right".  

Use your eyes to feedback to your hands how to adjust the file.  Look where each stroke is cutting, change the pressure, angle, or canting of the file to cut where you want it to.  This feedback is crucial to cutting where you want, and to keep the cut flat and planar.  

Sandpaper files are controlled exactly like a metal file.  Watch each stroke, see the "cut" pattern, and adjust to cut how you want.  Don't randomly saw back and forwards, or swirly it around in circles.  Those are what I see most unskilled people do.  That doesn't control how and where the cut is made, and doesn't allow for eye/hand feedback to control how and where it is cutting.  

Remember, you are trying to only remove metal where you don't want it, and always keeping in mind the objective you're working towards; removing metal to approach that objective.

A sandpaper file well controlled will cut metal away several times as fast as someone using their fingers to hold the paper, and will do it in much more controlled fashion.

Here's a couple of pictures of how I use the sandpaper file, and how I polish cupped or circular surfaces.  I use a hammer handle, and just hold the paper with my fingers.  I could tack it on like the flat, but the curvature needed varies, so I just use cloth back paper and hold it on an appropriately sized hammer handle instead.  It doesn't work as well as the tacked flat file, but it's expedient and works.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
« Last Edit: Dec 19th, 2025 at 11:13pm by ssdave »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ssdave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2068
Location: Eastern Oregon
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Detailed Metal Finishing - Buttplate as an example
Reply #4 - Dec 19th, 2025 at 12:10am
Print Post  
Back to the original point of this post.

A lot of metal finish looks fine, but "not quite right".  That not quite right is the lack of fine detail precision.  Surfaces not planar.  Transitions not smooth, dips, nicks, gouges, rounded off edges.   

Here's some pictures of various lack of detail:

First, a typically amateurish finish.  Not flat, rounded over, not precise.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Here's a better one, this on a $3000+ Meacham High wall.  Still lack of detail at the end button scroll, and flat spot and not quite all scratches removed.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

How I approach this starts with the filing.  I use needle files to shape the fine details, get them right as to shape, flatness, continuity and form, and then smooth them more with each successively finer grit.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

I pay attention to corners and edges.  Don't just sand along them and take whatever results; carefully craft each edge to the radius you want, paying attention to getting it consistent, even and attractively proportioned in size.   

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

This is where I am to as of tonight.  Will add more as I do more work.  I'm at 180 grit, will go 220, 320, 400, and maybe 600.  Then will send off to be nickel plated.

I'm into this buttplate 5 hours as you see it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1967
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Detailed Metal Finishing - Buttplate as an example
Reply #5 - Dec 19th, 2025 at 10:36am
Print Post  
Dave,
This is a very nicely done and informational thread.  While I have touched on the subject lightly in some of my posts, you have taken it to a higher level.  Everything you have said is spot on!

I have helped several guys build rifles and the sawing action is what I see in every case.  It’s sometimes tough to get that out of some folks habits.

Couple things:
You touch on changing the angle of the paper.  That need to be stressed, when I am polishing with paper I work one way/angle.  The next grit I change the angle so I can tell when all the old scratches are gone

The other thing I have learned, is when paper is wore out, change it.  Your just wasting time trying get more out of it.

Also, rasp work on wood is really just like filing on metal as Dave is showing.  Most of he same processes are the same and if not followed will end up with the same poor results.

Every stroke of a rasp or file should have a purpose.

Thanks Dave for posting this, I’m going to show it to the guys I have help build.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 17473
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Detailed Metal Finishing - Buttplate as an example
Reply #6 - Dec 19th, 2025 at 11:17am
Print Post  
Great informative thread post Dave! I do much the same, except for one thing. I fought keeping paper stuck to my various sticks, and then I remembered my body working pads and sandpaper I use for my car projects. I went to the shop and grabbed some of my self adhesive sandpaper rolls and my 3M Durablock sanding pads. I use these for larger areas to do the sanding, and for tighter areas I set the Durablock aside, and still use the self adhesive sandpaper rolls on my various sticks. I cut the paper to the width and length I need and just apply it to the sticks. Peel it off when it wears out, and stick new paper on. It makes keeping the paper on the sticks easy, and quick to change. I buy the 3" wide 50 ft. rolls and cut it to fit in various grits.
I also have a 1/2" wide belt hand held power sander, and a 1" belt table top sander that I use at certain steps to get the cast finish off quickly before moving to the hand finishing.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bpjack
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3554
Location: East Olympia, WA
Joined: May 18th, 2008
Re: Detailed Metal Finishing - Buttplate as an example
Reply #7 - Dec 19th, 2025 at 4:59pm
Print Post  
Good timing Dave. I did do final polishing on the MVA DST lever that still had some machining marks on it. Next up is the cast brass buttplate that I bought from you. I also just ordered one from CPA as well. 

Jack
  

ASSRA # 11318
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JHand
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 185
Joined: Apr 15th, 2024
Re: Detailed Metal Finishing - Buttplate as an example
Reply #8 - Dec 19th, 2025 at 7:24pm
Print Post  
Serendipitous timing! I'll be working down a cpa cast plate soon myself
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
rifleman
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 350
Joined: Aug 4th, 2015
Re: Detailed Metal Finishing - Buttplate as an example
Reply #9 - Dec 19th, 2025 at 8:47pm
Print Post  
Oh this is good stuff. Thank you for taking the time to write this out. Just Sunday I made my first attempt at draw filing a barrel flat with just enough information to be dangerous. Excellent information.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
jhm
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1926
Location: georgia
Joined: Sep 4th, 2011
Re: Detailed Metal Finishing - Buttplate as an example
Reply #10 - Dec 19th, 2025 at 9:16pm
Print Post  
Oh now you tell us all this stuff... Well better late than never I guess. Very good useful information for anyone who does even the least amount of metal work. I have used any manner of flat material to fasten sandpaper to usually whatever is handy but your example of what to use and how to affix said sandpaper will be followed to the letter. Maybe my ride on the struggle bus will be less bumpy. I must admit I often loose patience when finishing a project and it shows in the end result. Your example of tools and methods will help a lot. Thanks and bring us more. Old machinists can still learn new tricks...


JMH
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
AJ
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 201
Joined: Aug 25th, 2011
Re: Detailed Metal Finishing - Buttplate as an example
Reply #11 - Dec 19th, 2025 at 10:02pm
Print Post  
Good stuff Dave.  I’ll add that files get clogged and need to be cleaned, and that diamond sharpening stones and plates are pretty effective when used in the same role as abrasive paper.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ssdave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2068
Location: Eastern Oregon
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Detailed Metal Finishing - Buttplate as an example
Reply #12 - Dec 19th, 2025 at 11:04pm
Print Post  
Thanks, Bob, for bringing up a couple of things I'd glossed over.   

As you said, sanding angle is critical to seeing your progress.  I alternate directions when I change grits.  That way, when all the marks going the other direction are gone, you know you've sanded everything at least to the level of the last grit.  Now, only additional blending and shaping remain for that grit.

And, wearing out of paper is a critical issue  Less so with silicone carbide than with aluminum oxide.  Silicone carbide seems to cut pretty well until the paper starts to deteriorate and tear, and the grit breaks down so it gets finer.  Al-Ox doesn't seem to wear, but it starts cutting slow, and worse, as you press harder, the few coarser grains cause scratching.  Use a light touch with Al-Ox, and change it when it slows down.

A key characteristic of the sandpaper files as I use them is that they have 4 cutting surfaces.  The ones nearest the loose edge should be the most worn.  When they get worn out, just tear them off to reveal new paper.  The opposite side has the sharpest, hardest corners, the flattest face, and the newest grit.  The narrow edges are good for getting into tighter areas or applying more pressure.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

I did 220 grit and 320 grit today.  Not a lot of detail that my camera will pick up.  One thing I start doing at the end of 220 grit, is I go over the entire piece with a slack piece of 220 held with fingers only, more or less parallel to the longest lines of the piece.  This gives a good visual for the angled pattern of the next grit, as it gets hard to see the fine scratches.  It also tends to blend the surface slightly from the minute flat areas left by sanding with a backer.

I've tried to show the angle and how the coverage shows up in the angled pattern, but I'm at the limits of what my camera shows well.   

I'll finish with 400 and 600 tomorrow, and send it off to be plated.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ssdave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2068
Location: Eastern Oregon
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Detailed Metal Finishing - Buttplate as an example
Reply #13 - Dec 19th, 2025 at 11:07pm
Print Post  
I'm going to focus on a "lessons learned", or stupid path you don't need to follow yourself.  The last time I made a set of sandpaper files, I did an expedient and stapled the paper on, instead of a thumb tack.  Don't do that.  If you hit the work with the staple, you put in a big scratch.  A thumb tack doesn't.  Use the tack.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ssdave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2068
Location: Eastern Oregon
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Detailed Metal Finishing - Buttplate as an example
Reply #14 - Dec 20th, 2025 at 12:56am
Print Post  
I did the final 400 and 600 polishing steps, and I'm happy with the results.  Now, need to countersink and fit the screws, and then do a final repolish and send off to be plated.

I'm into this 7 to 8 hours.  A lot more time than you would expect for as small as it is.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint