Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Joseph Singer Rifle (Read 3668 times)
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2206
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #30 - Sep 1st, 2026 at 12:24pm
Print Post  
calledflyer wrote on Aug 31st, 2026 at 12:22pm:
looking better and better. but, of course it does, always.
I'd like to ask how, from the earlier post, did you mill that depression into a surface that humps up and down on the inner face of the butt plate. I can only imagine straight lines on any milling I ever had done. Engine blocks are supposed to be flat and that kind of up and down is eliminated- end of my knowledge.



I think this is the picture you are referring too.  This is also the only picture I took showing the feature you are asking about.

The plate was still attached to the larger piece of steel when I machined the depression.  It’s not as clean looking as it appears in the photo, after all, I just wanted to remove some of this center section so it would make fitting to the wood easier.

I mounted it facing up in the mill and took just sections of it at a time.  It’s only around .050 deep at most.  I simply started first by milling the center section flat.  Then moving each way tipping the plate and milling flats until I  got to the ends.  I did it in 3-4 movements of the plate.  I also had the online laid out and while machining the flats cut to that line.  So the machining isn’t smooth but has shallow facets.
Hopefully this is a good explaination.
Bob
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
calledflyer
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4053
Joined: Mar 9th, 2015
Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #31 - Sep 1st, 2026 at 4:01pm
Print Post  
Thanks for answering, Bob, and the explanation is a clear picture of how you did it. I figured it was done while the whole block was still together, but it just looks like it's a smooth 'swoopy' contour like you might find on a casting or something. 
I like what you make and the process is amazing, but nowadays I wonder how long it will be until we begin to see such things done with the amazing printing processes out there. Adios, tradition. And craftsmen like you that are already pretty scarce.  Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2206
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #32 - Sep 1st, 2026 at 5:40pm
Print Post  
calledflyer wrote on Sep 1st, 2026 at 4:01pm:
Thanks for answering, Bob, and the explanation is a clear picture of how you did it. I figured it was done while the whole block was still together, but it just looks like it's a smooth 'swoopy' contour like you might find on a casting or something. 
I like what you make and the process is amazing, but nowadays I wonder how long it will be until we begin to see such things done with the amazing printing processes out there. Adios, tradition. And craftsmen like you that are already pretty scarce.  Smiley


If I only knew CAD, I could definitely draw this out, and size it to  print a patterns.  Then send the pattern away for casting.  Not sure I would live long enough to start learning CAD now though!
Bob
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2206
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #33 - Sep 1st, 2026 at 6:33pm
Print Post  
Photo 1.  I think this is as far as I will go on this buttplate shaping for now.  Although, looking at this picture, the ends of the tangs appear still too large and I will need to shrink them!

I have the area between the tangs mostly rough shaped.  I like to have this close to being done before I drill any holes for the plate screws.  It's easier to figure screw head thickness and slot depths with this being shaped.   

I also have the circumference of the base shaped.  This gets me to the point where I can install the buttplate and still make any minor shaping adjustments, once the wood is in place.   

Photo 2.  A better picture of the bottom of the base and the recessed area we were talking about in the earlier post.  Like I said, not as pretty as it looked in the other picture! Embarrassed

Also can be seen is the shape of the base circumference.  This is also the shape of the wood stock at the buttplate, so it's important to be correct.  I use a hand drawn pattern to lay this out, but in the end I finish shaping by eye.  I keep hoping my eye sight is not fooling me to badly!

Photo 3.  The buttplate laid out on the drawing, just to be sure it is correctly shaped.  I like a smooth transition from the wood through the buttplate tangs.

Photo 4 and 5.  These show each side and the smooth lines I am looking for before installing.  Any irregularities need to be fix.   

In the last picture, the red arrow pointing to the left side of the base, shows a slightly straight area that I did not see when checking the final shape, on the actual plate.  This may be just a photo illusion, but I will need to check it out anyway.  I also think I see the same issue in the picture of the other side, in the same location, so I may have missed it.   

I do study my pictures, often seeing errors or something I don't like, and end up correcting them.  So, if you are building a rifle take pictures and study them.  You will be surprised at what you sometimes see!
Bob
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2206
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #34 - Sep 9th, 2026 at 8:08pm
Print Post  
Continuing with the installation of this buttplate.

Photo 1.  The drawing along with the wood and buttplate.

Photo 2.  First thing that needs to happen is finding the centerline from the action.  While there are several ways to do this, I found the easiest for me is clamp the action in the vice on my mill.  Find the center of the action.  I do verify the center from the front to the rear.  If it is off, which it usually is, I adjust the vice.

Photo 3.  I then scribe some lines in a few key places.  One can be seen just behind the cheek rest.

I then turn the stock and action over and do the same on the bottom.

Once that is completed, it is just a matter of connecting the dots.
Bob
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2206
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #35 - Sep 9th, 2026 at 8:39pm
Print Post  
I have mentioned before that the original rifle has some cast to the stock.  I decided to duplicate this cast on this rifle.  The original had 1/4 inch at the heel, or rear of comb, and to the right.  The toe, or bottom, had 1/2 inch, also to the right.   

This 1/2 inch is a lot, I actually reduced it to 7/16, but even that should make for some interesting shaping.

Photo 1. The buttplate is set over the heel cast line.  The other is the center line coming off the action center.

Photo 2.  The buttplate is setting over the toe cast line.  Again, the other line is the center.

If you install a buttplate on the centerline of a stock, the buttplate is fitted square to the center line.   

The same holds true for a stock with cast, except the buttplate is square to the new angled cast line, not the centerline.  With cast, if you were to install it square to the centerline, but on the cast line, the plate would not be on straight to the finished stock.

Photo 3 shows the line that is square to the cast line.  This doesn't look like much, but it would be seen if not done properly, especially with a long tang.

The problem with this stock, is the deference between the top and bottom cast being so different.  In this case, my plan is to follow the greater of the two angles, or the bottom toe line.  The top  tang, being shorter, should cover up the extra tipping it will have.  If I lined up on the top tang, I'm afraid the longer lower tang would look crooked.
Bob 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2206
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #36 - Sep 9th, 2026 at 9:15pm
Print Post  
Now for the fitting to the wood.

Photo 1.  I mark and then bandsaw the butt of the stock, to the rough buttplate shape.  Then, using a rasp, I flatten and work to get the correct angle to how it is setting on the wood.  I lay the plate on the wood and remove wood where it touches, I just do this by eye for now.  I am also laying a straight edge on the stocks cast line, and checking to be sure the plate centerline is aligned with it.  This does get the fit close, but the following is how I finish.

I then layout a fresh centerline. I also need a location mark for where it will set on the vertical.  That locating line can also be seen here.

Photo 2.  Inletting black applied to the plate bottom.

Photo 3.  The black is hard to see on this Rosewood, I should have some yellow but, you can see it here.  I will remove the black only while fitting.

Photo 4.  I found while working on this final-fit that, even a small amount of changes in positioning was hard to not to do!  If it changed, I ended up with a gap in the valley or center area.

This pictures shows a small gap along this area but especially at the arrow.  While this isn't too bad, the other side of the plate is much worse.

So, I decided to install a locating pin so it is positioned exactly the same, every time it is off, and then back on.
Bob

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2206
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #37 - Sep 11th, 2026 at 5:43pm
Print Post  
So this locating pin hole is also the final screw hole position, the pin just ends up being the same as the screw without a head.  I also only used the top screw position for the locating pin.  It can be installed straight, where the lower screw is to be installed at an angle.  That second screw would not allow for easy removal during the fitting.

I do this in the mill.  This first picture shows the setup...nothing complicated.   

I want the buttplate to go, on and off, straight off the wood.  This is the reason I used a level across the two humps.

This next picture shows the buttplate in place and clamped into position.

Photo 3. Like I said before this hole is also the final screw hole, so the hole is completely finished for the screw, but used with a threaded pin for fitting the plate.

Photo 4.  The locating pin in use.  Getting close to the final fit as can be seen by the black on the wood.

Photo 5.  The final fit and now ready for the screws.
Bob


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2206
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #38 - Sep 11th, 2026 at 5:55pm
Print Post  
So the buttplate is on and now I am ready to start shaping the wood.

This first picture shows the final fit of the plate with the screws in place.   

I'm really tired of this buttplate, been a long process getting it to this point, but I think it will work!

The second picture shows the profile lines I originally laid out.  I am going to start working down the toe or bottom line.  The transition line is pretty good between the wood and the buttplate but I will make small changes as I work it down.

This last picture is showing the toe line close to the final size.  The flow is easier to see here in this picture.   

At this point I have around 1/16th inch of wood to go.

I haven't touched the top of the stock yet.
Bob
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2206
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #39 - Sep 14th, 2026 at 6:52pm
Print Post  
The top profile is now roughed out as seen in this first picture.  I have also drawn the cheek-rest in, getting ready for grinding.

I use a 4 inch angle grinder, with a sanding disc, to remove the excess wood and get the modeling started.  It's easier to get the wood off this way rather than with a rasp.  I also like to have the wood at the action frame reduced before grinding, then I don't need to get close to the metal with the grinder.  This picture shows the reduced sides at the front.  Can't see them in this picture, but there are scribed lines on each side that are .100 wider on each side than the frame width.

I thought this third picture was a good one showing what the top of the stock looks like at this point in the shaping.  You can see there is a small amount of wood to remove to get to the final size.  This wood will be removed, with rasps, during the final modeling of the stock.

This last picture shows more layout lines.  This Rosewood is so dark I need to scribe the lines in order to be able to see them.  These lines are wide enough to leave around an 1/8 inch extra  on each side, after grinding.   The extra wood allows for final shaping.
Bob

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Joe Do...
Oldtimer
ASSRA Board Member
ASSRA Journal Editor
*****
Offline



Posts: 670
Location: 'burbs of Chicago
Joined: May 19th, 2012
Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #40 - Sep 14th, 2026 at 8:13pm
Print Post  
Incredible progress! This rifle is going to be stunning!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2206
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #41 - Sep 15th, 2026 at 5:26pm
Print Post  
Thanks Joe.

Got the grinding done today.

Pictures of both sides, top and bottom.

The last picture is the bottom, and I took it like this in order to show the cast better.  I tried to line up the action sides with the picture so that the cast really stands out.

She's going to look pretty strange sitting in a rack with other straight rifles! Wink
Bob
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
calledflyer
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4053
Joined: Mar 9th, 2015
Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #42 - Sep 15th, 2026 at 8:01pm
Print Post  
well, it's going to be a stunner in any rack I'd guess. that stock is mighty radical though. I don't think I could ever get comfy trying to shoot it- but I'd try if you let me Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18273
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #43 - Sep 16th, 2026 at 10:17am
Print Post  
Is it just an illusion, or do you plan for a fair amount of cast off in this stock?
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2206
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #44 - Sep 16th, 2026 at 12:09pm
Print Post  
marlinguy wrote on Sep 16th, 2026 at 10:17am:
Is it just an illusion, or do you plan for a fair amount of cast off in this stock?


Not an illusion Vall.  Also not a plan anymore, way past planning.  1/4 inch at the heel and 7/16 at the toe.  The owner, of the one original measured his, and it is 1/4 at the heel and 1/2 inch at the toe.  He shot the rifle competitively and said it was very comfortable to hold.  I usually built muzzleloader with cast but this is a bit more than any of those.  I’ve done 3/8 at the toe but never more.
Bob
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 
Send TopicPrint