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waterman
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Bad idea?
Dec 15th, 2025 at 6:06pm
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I have a 1902 roller, 7 x 57, with a bad barrel, a sorta heavy half octagon unchambered .224 barrel of unknown origin, and a Lyman Alaskan scope.   

Been thinking about something that would use milsurp 5.6 mm ammo.  Bad idea?
  
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Bulseyetom
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Re: Bad idea?
Reply #1 - Dec 15th, 2025 at 7:45pm
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My thought that a 223 in a Roller is not a good idea.  My vote would be a 219 Zipper or since it is something you would have to reload for maybe a 219 Zipper Improved.  Back around 1961 or so my dad contacted P O Aclkey about a #5 Roller and he recommended a 22-250.  Now that was before that cartridge was commercially available, but I think that would have been an accident waiting to happen.  Tom
  
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Chris W
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Re: Bad idea?
Reply #2 - Dec 15th, 2025 at 10:00pm
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I’ve got a high wall that was done in 22 Hornet, it’s definitely fun to shoot!
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Bad idea?
Reply #3 - Dec 16th, 2025 at 3:33am
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I think it's something you'd just have to try. I wouldn't consider it dangerous, per se but, it could stretch the cases. That's what happens when the RB reaches it's thrust maximum.

I'd make sure the head space was tight and that the breech block is square.
  

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Re: Bad idea?
Reply #4 - Dec 16th, 2025 at 10:02am
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rotary or sliding extractor?
I have a take off barrel in 22 k-hornet, sliding extractor
for the shipping if you can use it
lot of snow here , take a couple of days for a pic
  
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Re: Bad idea?
Reply #5 - Dec 16th, 2025 at 11:12am
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If you use the 224 barrel, how about a 222 Rem or 218 Bee?

Otherwise, I'd consider reboring the original barrel to 30-30, etc.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Bad idea?
Reply #6 - Dec 16th, 2025 at 2:16pm
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When you begin to push Rolling Block actions you not only get heads[ace issues, but you also ruin brass. Since the block rolls back it creates an angle to the bore which makes the rims bend at an angle. Once that happens there's no fixing the brass, and it wont chamber again without being oriented the same way it was when the rims bent.
Best to keep Rolling Block pressures under 25,000 psi, and avoid issues.
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Bad idea?
Reply #7 - Dec 16th, 2025 at 4:59pm
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It's all about bolt thrust for the RB. I stretched some 45/70 cases with my 1897 model. It's as strong as any RB and the pressure wasn't that high.

Hear are examples of bolt thrust, using 30/40 @ 40,000 as the base. The hoop strength is not a issue with it's 1.055 thread diameter. 

30/40 = 6561
32/40 @ 32,000 = 4455
223 @ 50,000 = 5522
45/70 @ 25,000 = 5007
45/70 @ 30,000 = 6009
45/70 @ 35,000 =  7010
  

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beltfed
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Re: Bad idea?
Reply #8 - Dec 16th, 2025 at 5:40pm
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So what is the bolt thrust on the original 7X57 /45.000psi?
beltfed/arnie
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Bad idea?
Reply #9 - Dec 16th, 2025 at 5:47pm
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beltfed wrote on Dec 16th, 2025 at 5:40pm:
So what is the bolt thrust on the original 7X57 /45.000psi?
beltfed/arnie


I've always heard the original 7x57 cartridge was not as high pressure as later cartridges are. But I'm not sure what pressures or velocities the early 7mm's were? 
I do know that the smokeless 7x57 Rolling Blocks have a history of excess headspace issues, so not like they are immune to it.
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Bad idea?
Reply #10 - Dec 16th, 2025 at 5:58pm
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The 7 x 57 with it's .472 chamber, would be 7874 @ 45,000 but, from what I can find, it was 46,000 which would be 8049.

The 7 x 57R is listed at 41,000 and that's 7174.

  

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Re: Bad idea?
Reply #11 - Dec 16th, 2025 at 7:44pm
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If you're looking for something that's an easy conversion and a lot of fun to shoot, consider .45 ACP.  No extractor work and it makes a fun little carbine.
  

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Re: Bad idea?
Reply #12 - yesterday at 6:53am
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My 7 x 57 RB ate brass. The springy action stretched brass,  one reload maximum.  Brass stretched at head--I was timing brass and it stretched at the top of the brass at the head- stretched and sometimes separating.

That old gun shot oblong groups, taller than wide however.  Just now looked for my old log books but could not find any of them.  I think had a spreadsheet of some sort on 5-1/4" floppies I used in my Tandy 1000. That's long gone also.   But boy could the old 7mm RB shoot.  took AZ Javelina and Oregon blacktail with it.

I got it from Bill Hahn in Oceanside. Had a beautiful sporterized maple stock, California rollover cheek.  When Bill passed I often wondered who got his guns.  He had some interesting pieces. I traded that RB back to him for a 38-55 Highwall.  Had big plans for it.  Very plain working mans gun.  Shot it a couple of times right after  I got it.  Been sitting in the back of my safe now for 40 years.

Sorry just waxing nostalgic.
  

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Re: Bad idea?
Reply #13 - Today at 2:12am
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marlinguy wrote on Dec 16th, 2025 at 5:47pm:
beltfed wrote on Dec 16th, 2025 at 5:40pm:
So what is the bolt thrust on the original 7X57 /45.000psi?
beltfed/arnie


I've always heard the original 7x57 cartridge was not as high pressure as later cartridges are. But I'm not sure what pressures or velocities the early 7mm's were? 
I do know that the smokeless 7x57 Rolling Blocks have a history of excess headspace issues, so not like they are immune to it.


While not "original,"  I still have maybe a hundred or so Tankride 7mm rounds headstamped 1920. I can send some to you if you are serious about determining pressures and velocity. The headspace problem with the 1897 or 1902 rollers were entirely deliberate. Remington simply chambered them too deep. Forming 7mm Mauser from 8mm Mauser or 30-06 or even .270 cures headspace problems. If you stop sizing when the breechblock first "clanks", the cases will be customized TO THAT RIFLE. Problem solved. Let me know if you want some of those rounds.
  
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