Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Low Wall Pressures (Read 895 times)
Jonathan
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 30
Location: THE GOOD PART OF NY
Joined: Sep 5th, 2025
Low Wall Pressures
Dec 12th, 2025 at 1:07pm
Print Post  
  I just got a pretty nice Low Wall that I bought as much for the sights as the rifle. The only good thing to say about the bore is that the severe pitting is at least uniform through it's length but I bought it for conversion anyway. It's a 32/20 and I would like to have it lined and re-chambered to 327 Federal Mag. I want this cartridge because I cast and load a lot of 32 S&W long for use in a couple of 32 rimfires that I had converted and the 327 will fire them and give me the option of using something with a lot more punch. I've read that the 327 has a very high chamber pressure and my question is will a low wall handle it safely? I see that the Jap low walls are chambered in 243 etc. but that's modern steel soooo?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7551
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: Low Wall Pressures
Reply #1 - Dec 12th, 2025 at 1:23pm
Print Post  
I think the 32 H&R Magnum would be a better choice.
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
gnoahhh
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1017
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Joined: Mar 31st, 2010
Re: Low Wall Pressures
Reply #2 - Dec 12th, 2025 at 1:28pm
Print Post  
Ditto.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RJ-35-40
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 219
Joined: Dec 7th, 2016
Re: Low Wall Pressures
Reply #3 - Dec 12th, 2025 at 2:12pm
Print Post  
This chart has been around for a while;
Click in the link for a smaller size.

I believe this was produced for the older guns

Jonathan wrote on Dec 12th, 2025 at 1:07pm:
  I just got a pretty nice Low Wall that I bought as much for the sights as the rifle. The only good thing to say about the bore is that the severe pitting is at least uniform through it's length but I bought it for conversion anyway. It's a 32/20 and I would like to have it lined and re-chambered to 327 Federal Mag. I want this cartridge because I cast and load a lot of 32 S&W long for use in a couple of 32 rimfires that I had converted and the 327 will fire them and give me the option of using something with a lot more punch. I've read that the 327 has a very high chamber pressure and my question is will a low wall handle it safely? I see that the Jap low walls are chambered in 243 etc. but that's modern steel soooo?

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jonathan
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 30
Location: THE GOOD PART OF NY
Joined: Sep 5th, 2025
Re: Low Wall Pressures
Reply #4 - Dec 12th, 2025 at 2:46pm
Print Post  
Better to err on the side of not stupid. The 32 H&R won't give me the pizazz that I want for deer but the 38/40 will and I've always wanted one. Problem solved. Thanks
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CW
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 526
Joined: Feb 20th, 2018
Re: Low Wall Pressures
Reply #5 - Dec 12th, 2025 at 3:20pm
Print Post  
That is a great chart and I have copied it.
Is there any difference or distinction between the large and small ring receivers?

I agree to always be on the side of safety.
BTW- a 38-40 Win low wall is on my bucket list too. Good choice.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RJ-35-40
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 219
Joined: Dec 7th, 2016
Re: Low Wall Pressures
Reply #6 - Dec 12th, 2025 at 4:44pm
Print Post  
RE: LOW Walls
First, while this is "Fun information" I don't know where the chart came from or can speak to it's accuracy. 
A quick search (no citations) revealed that the original Winchesters were not designed to go much above 20,000 Psi, conversely the 'Modern Replicas are reportedly designed to be limited to about 33,000 PSI.

My Uberti Low wall in 32-40  12-Twist was chambered that way before I bought it and was so modified by the gent that sold me the rifle. 
Further the Uberti company doesn't offer the Low wall in 32-40. So caution is advised. All that said the rifle was configured to be a schuetzen rifle so less pressure is better shooting off hand. (at least for me)

While my chambering is above the Frank de Haas projected precautionary "curve" or limit I am not too concerned if I load my smokeless loads below 21,000 PSI. I feel comfortable with shooting it especially with black powder. 

While this chart is a Cartridge "Thrust" estimate it doesn't address the hoop strength of either the barrel at that point or the strength of the very thin wall receiver.

I find it interesting that the "Thrust limit"s are so affected by the cartridge base diameter, the smaller the base the more pressure it can handle. I would have thought that that the breech block would distribute the pressure evenly on the mortise.... HUMMM?



=0F28372C2E2934262923262B2B2229470 link=1765562847/0#0 date=1765562847]  I just got a pretty nice Low Wall that I bought as much for the sights as the rifle. The only good thing to say about the bore is that the severe pitting is at least uniform through it's length but I bought it for conversion anyway. It's a 32/20 and I would like to have it lined and re-chambered to 327 Federal Mag. I want this cartridge because I cast and load a lot of 32 S&W long for use in a couple of 32 rimfires that I had converted and the 327 will fire them and give me the option of using something with a lot more punch. I've read that the 327 has a very high chamber pressure and my question is will a low wall handle it safely? I see that the Jap low walls are chambered in 243 etc. but that's modern steel soooo? [/quote]
« Last Edit: Dec 18th, 2025 at 12:49pm by RJ-35-40 »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cellargun
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 106
Joined: Feb 28th, 2022
Re: Low Wall Pressures
Reply #7 - Dec 12th, 2025 at 4:52pm
Print Post  
CW wrote on Dec 12th, 2025 at 3:20pm:
That is a great chart and I have copied it.
Is there any difference or distinction between the large and small ring receivers?

I agree to always be on the side of safety.
BTW- a 38-40 Win low wall is on my bucket list too. Good choice.

Someone can chime in if this is wrong, but I'm nearly positive all lowwalls use the small tenon due to the physical size of the receiver. 
I agree with others that a 327 Federal would be too much bang for the buck. Even if you only load low pressure versions, you have to think of future owners.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gnoahhh
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1017
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Joined: Mar 31st, 2010
Re: Low Wall Pressures
Reply #8 - Dec 12th, 2025 at 7:33pm
Print Post  
RJ-35-40 wrote on Dec 12th, 2025 at 4:44pm:
RE: LOW Walls
First, while this is "Fun information" I don't know where the chart came from or can speak to it's accuracy. 
A quick search (no citations) revealed that the original Winchesters were not designed to go much above 20,000 Psi, conversely the 'Modern Replicas are reportedly designed to be limited to about 33,000 PSI.

My Uberti Low wall in 32-40  12-Twist was chambered that way before I bought it and was so modified by the gent that sold me the rifle. 
Further the Uberti company doesn't offer the Low wall in 32-40. So caution is advised. All that said the rifle was configured to be a schuetzen rifle so less pressure is more. 

While my chambering is above the Frank de Haas projected precautionary "curve" or limit I am not too concerned if I load my smokeless loads below 21,000 PSI. I feel comfortable with shooting it especially with black powder. 

While this chart is a Cartridge "Thrust" estimate it doesn't address the hoop strength of either the barrel at that point or the strength of the very thin wall receiver.

I find it interesting that the "Thrust limit"s are so affected by the cartridge base diameter, the smaller the base the more pressure it can handle. I would have thought that that the breech block would distribute the pressure evenly on the mortise.... HUMMM?



  I've read that the 327 has a very high chamber pressure and my question is will a low wall handle it safely? I see that the Jap low walls are chambered in 243 etc. but that's modern steel soooo?

[/quote]

Depends who the offshore manufacturer of the "modern" Low Wall is. Italian ones are better than original Winchesters but not by tremendous amount. The Japanese Mirokus on the other hand are in a league of their own. You'll find them in .243 and .260 - pretty fearsome chamber pressures - and some very very few in 6.5x55 (God would I love to find one of them). My two are in .22 Hornet and .223 and I don't hold anything back when I load for them. (And on top of that they're the most accurate rifles in those two calibers that I've ever owned.) Miroku got their metallurgy down pat.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Chuckster
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2284
Location: Colorado
Joined: May 15th, 2008
Re: Low Wall Pressures
Reply #9 - Dec 13th, 2025 at 11:11am
Print Post  
The modern low-wall's are a different design from the originals. The modern low-wall has the receiver shoulders, behind the breech block, at or above the center line of the bore. This design change has more effect than the metallurgy.

The original low-wall has the shoulders significantly below the center line of the bore. This works like a post in a post hole. Fairly easy to crush the dirt at the top of the hole with a side load on the post.

The chart shown is a cropped version of the original. Cropped information included a caution about other effects than cartridge thrust, my name and date. The chart is based on SAAMI data to attempt to quantify the capabilities of an original low-wall. .357 Mag. was the largest cartridge found in print and knew of a cracked low-wall in .32-40.

My greatest concern with the chart was the mixing of more modern transducer pressure measurements with older Copper Units of Pressure (CUP), but did not see a choice.
Chuck
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RJ-35-40
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 219
Joined: Dec 7th, 2016
Re: Low Wall Pressures
Reply #10 - Dec 13th, 2025 at 1:11pm
Print Post  
Chuck,

Thank you for that additional information...!

Bob


Chuckster wrote on Dec 13th, 2025 at 11:11am:
The modern low-wall's are a different design from the originals. The modern low-wall has the receiver shoulders, behind the breech block, at or above the center line of the bore. This design change has more effect than the metallurgy.

The original low-wall has the shoulders significantly below the center line of the bore. This works like a post in a post hole. Fairly easy to crush the dirt at the top of the hole with a side load on the post.

The chart shown is a cropped version of the original. Cropped information included a caution about other effects than cartridge thrust, my name and date. The chart is based on SAAMI data to attempt to quantify the capabilities of an original low-wall. .357 Mag. was the largest cartridge found in print and knew of a cracked low-wall in .32-40.

My greatest concern with the chart was the mixing of more modern transducer pressure measurements with older Copper Units of Pressure (CUP), but did not see a choice.
Chuck

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7551
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: Low Wall Pressures
Reply #11 - Dec 13th, 2025 at 1:35pm
Print Post  
Chuck, here is a SAAMI comparison for the 44/40:

​44-40 MAX SAAMI CUP = 13,000 CUP (Copper Units of Pressure in PSI)

44-40 MAX SAAMI PSI = 11,000 PSI (USA Piezoelectric Strain Gauge) 

For some reason the 38/40 runs a higher pressure of 14,000 CUP.

I consider both to potentially dangerous in a LW, since they have a chamber diameter of .471, 58% greater in thrust area than the 357, especially for those that will shoot bullets heavier than the 180 and 200 gr that the pressures are arrived from w/o finding safe 13000 CUP load data. Then there is always a chance of double charging the large case.

BP loads would be the only safe loads to shoot in a LW with those cartridges.
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
Chuckster
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2284
Location: Colorado
Joined: May 15th, 2008
Re: Low Wall Pressures
Reply #12 - Dec 14th, 2025 at 11:27am
Print Post  
Frank,  Thanks for your help in developing this chart.
The curves were developed by holding the cartridge thrust constant, changing the cartridge base diameter and calculating the allowable pressure.
Chuck
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
nuclearcricket
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 815
Joined: Oct 15th, 2008
Re: Low Wall Pressures
Reply #13 - Dec 14th, 2025 at 2:19pm
Print Post  
I have an origional low wall in 38 WCF. I had to have the barrel relined as it was pretty much garbage.  I was surprised when shooting it. Even with BP loads  its nothing to turn your nose down at. A 180 grain bullet at 1200 fps is rather zippy in that little rifle. I am sure you can get a bit more out of some smokeless loads if your careful. problems is that there just isn't too much out there in the lines of Rifle loads. Most of what I have seen is just pistol loads but at least they would be on the safe level. 
Sam
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
John Taylor
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1820
Location: Lewiston, ID
Joined: Oct 23rd, 2006
Re: Low Wall Pressures
Reply #14 - Dec 17th, 2025 at 1:58pm
Print Post  
I have seen one low wall with a cracked receiver so I know it can happen. I don't remember what it was chambered in. A while back someone sent me a Stevens 44 with two broken breach blocks. It had been a 25-20 and someone re-chambered to 25-35. After that I received a 44 that the customer said he didn't know what it was chambered in but it was marked 25-20. When he tried to shoot it the brass was swelled up and split. I did a chamber cast and found it had been re-chambered to 256 Winchester. This was not safe and I told the customer. He didn't want to spend any money so I bought it from him and re-barreled it to 44-40. Now it's a fun rifle to shoot.
I don't believe a low wall should be hot rodded in any way. If you want more power, use a rifle designed for more pressure.
  

John Taylor   Machinist/gunsmith
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint