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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Heat treating cast parts from a kit (Read 927 times)
Logan
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Heat treating cast parts from a kit
Dec 10th, 2025 at 12:19pm
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I’m sure this topic has been covered but I can’t seem to find anything on it. I am in the process of building a Walker Hepburn from a kit. 

I bought a barreled receiver that was smoked and had almost no parts with it. I’ve got a hammer, a regular Hepburn breach block and receiver, everything else is from the kit. I’ve got an aftermarket 32-40 Win barrel that will go on it.

I read up a little about annealing the receiver and people’s opinions, don’t think I’ll need to do that. I plan on nickel plating or rust bluing the parts. Do they need to be heat treated? The lower tang and lever and such I think not, but the breach block takes some abuse.

Logan
  
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jhm
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Re: Heat treating cast parts from a kit
Reply #1 - Dec 10th, 2025 at 6:06pm
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If it is an original action any competent smith or heat treat house would know how to do it. If it is from say Rodney Storie or other supplier of casting kits they are normally done out of 8620 material which is low carbon high alloy that will take a good case harden. If I have missed something I am sure others will contribute with their knowledge...



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Logan
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Re: Heat treating cast parts from a kit
Reply #2 - Dec 11th, 2025 at 10:35am
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Johnny,

I bought the kit second hand, the receiver and hammer are original, everything else I will use from the kit. I’m more wondering whether it is necessary to case harden or heat treat the parts. Can I just go straight to nickel plating/rust bluing?

Logan
  
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jimmy
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Re: Heat treating cast parts from a kit
Reply #3 - Dec 12th, 2025 at 10:50am
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The frame, breech block, trigger, hammer and sear need heat treatment. The sear and hammer area will wear and the breech block and frame will deform increasing headspace.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Heat treating cast parts from a kit
Reply #4 - Dec 12th, 2025 at 10:59am
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If the action and hammer are originals I can't see why they'd need to be heat treated? They already are heat treated for many decades now.
  

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Re: Heat treating cast parts from a kit
Reply #5 - Dec 12th, 2025 at 1:43pm
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Original parts should be good to go.
  
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chipmaker
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Re: Heat treating cast parts from a kit
Reply #6 - Dec 12th, 2025 at 7:56pm
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Logan,
You stated in your post. "I bought a barreled receiver that was smoked and had almost no parts with it."
Was the receiver in a fire?
If so, it should be checked for fire damage. If not, I'd agree with Marlinguy.
Rodney Storie told me that his castings used 8620 steel but that some castings in the past used 4140 steel. 
Untreated both steels should be safe with low pressure cartridges. However, the heat treatments are significantly different with these two steels and 4140 can become brittle if not properly heat treated.
I don't know an easy way to tell 4140 from 8620 and never could master the spark test. Maybe one of our members could help?
Otto
  
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Logan
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Re: Heat treating cast parts from a kit
Reply #7 - Dec 12th, 2025 at 11:09pm
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Thank you all, seems like I should just heat treat everything if I’m going to send parts out anyway right? 

Otto, by “smoked” I mean the chamber and bore were rough and the receiver is heavily pitted. I’ll try and track down where the kit came from.

Logan
  
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2152hq
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Re: Heat treating cast parts from a kit
Reply #8 - Dec 16th, 2025 at 4:49pm
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If you have cast parts from the kit that still have excess metal on them in the way of a casting sprue or other excess mold flashing , etc...
You can cut those pieces off and try home HT on them.
If they harden after heating it to a bright red and quenching in oil or water, then you have a thru hardening steel such as 4140.
It won't tell you other than it is a thru hardening high carbon steel, the exact alloy like a 4140 would be a guess.
But at least you know it is able to be hardened by HT.
Do not send it in for case hardening as it will end up brittle hard all the way through.

If the sample(s) end up just as soft and easily cut with a file after the heat and quench,,then you have a low carbon steel (like 8620,,but again exact alloy unkn).
These can be safely CCH. The core will remain soft.

Try and take a sample of metal off of one of the 'critical parts' in the kit. One that is expected to be hardened (trigger,sear, etc.
Screws and pins may just be a low carbon steel, but not necessarily.
Cast springs are usually a different high carbon alloy all together
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Heat treating cast parts from a kit
Reply #9 - Dec 16th, 2025 at 5:50pm
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Heat treating and quenching in water is never a good idea! It will get hard, but will also cause cracks from embrittlement.
  

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Logan
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Re: Heat treating cast parts from a kit
Reply #10 - Dec 17th, 2025 at 9:44am
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Turns out the kit is from Rodney Storie. So I’m assuming 8620?I’ve got a lot of work before they’re at a point to heat treat. I’ll do some research on how to verify the steel type before I get there.

Logan
  
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GunBum
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Re: Heat treating cast parts from a kit
Reply #11 - Dec 17th, 2025 at 12:28pm
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The fastest way to get the alloy identified is with a handheld XRF.  Of course they are in the ball part of $30k and up.  A lot of scrapyards and heat treaters have XRF’s to test alloys.  A little searching around should find one close to you.
  
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Re: Heat treating cast parts from a kit
Reply #12 - Dec 18th, 2025 at 11:11am
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I would PM Rodney, and ask him.
  
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2152hq
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Re: Heat treating cast parts from a kit
Reply #13 - Dec 22nd, 2025 at 4:51pm
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marlinguy wrote on Dec 16th, 2025 at 5:50pm:
Heat treating and quenching in water is never a good idea! It will get hard, but will also cause cracks from embrittlement.


These are just a test piece,,a small cut-off from the actual part casting. Like a still attached mould sprue.
The idea is just to see if it thru hardens or remains soft.

I do harden punches I make for engraving. I use water for that.
They are then drawn back a small amt before use. A lighter gets the call for doing the drawback. When just a hint of a straw color travels down the piece to the point, I  quench them once again in water to hold it right there.
I've never had one break,,,yet! 
They sometimes get battered and useless from use, But that takes a long time and usage.
The tiny cup=point (hollow dot) punches get dulled. But I resharpen them and they are good for another couple yrs use. 
...but the dot is smaller in diameter after sharpening, that's all.
50+ yrs and counting.
  
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Re: Heat treating cast parts from a kit
Reply #14 - Dec 23rd, 2025 at 8:53am
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At Lassen College I took the Color Casehardening course and we indeed used water (and ice water at that) for quenching.

You had to be careful of the steel you were trying to harden.  Some modern/foreign parts (they told us) used through-hardening steels that required special heat-treat procedures of their own.  Putting a hard case on one of these parts and quenching in ice water (with compressed air bubbling through it) would indeed harden the piece clear through, making it as brittle as glass.

But the malleable iron and mild steel parts of the old time guns (and the metal used in the Storie casting sets, except for the springs) casehardened nicely.  The instructors had a procedure where the oven was bought up to a certain temperature, held there for a short time, then lowered slightly for a four-hour soak.  This technique, with proper internal blocking, kept the parts from serious warpage on quenching.  We all watched everybody's stuff coming out of the quench late in the afternoon and I never saw a crack in anything.  One guy had a shotgun frame where the side and bottom plates slide into the main frame so precisely that you have to strain to see the dividing lines.  He pulled the colored parts off the screen, washed off the remaining charcoal, and slid them together with no problem, and you now couldn't see the lines at all for the swirl of colors.
  
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