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bullshop
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about bullet length for 40-90 BN
Aug 2nd, 2025 at 3:43pm
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Is it possible that someone here might know the bullet length of the original 370 gn bullet for the 40-90 Sharps ? I assume that both the BN and the straight used the same bullet.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

My 40-90 BN refuses to shoot well with anything over 1.3" length even though the Greenhill formula says a mold I have making a 440gn round nose bullet of  1.37" length is good to go.   My rifle says no way !

I am just curious as to the length of the original  factory bullet loaded in the cartridge.   Anyone know ?
  
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Ranch13
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Re: about bullet length for 40-90 BN
Reply #1 - Aug 2nd, 2025 at 8:26pm
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1 1/4 inch for the 370 gr bullet.
The 400360 BACO mould shoots well in the 20 twist 40’s
  
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Re: about bullet length for 40-90 BN
Reply #2 - Aug 2nd, 2025 at 11:10pm
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My .40/90 SS HW shoots well with a Hoch 408370 that has a length of 1.215".
Spud
  
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beltfed
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Re: about bullet length for 40-90 BN
Reply #3 - Aug 4th, 2025 at 2:49pm
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Presuming you may have a 18 twist in that 40-90bn
use a 1.25" long bullet.
The Greenhill formula with the constant of 150
does not work for our velocity range.  Use a 120-125 constant
beltfed/arnie
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: about bullet length for 40-90 BN
Reply #4 - Aug 4th, 2025 at 6:34pm
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Results of Don Miller gyroscopic stability factor:

Caliber      0.408      Inches            
Bullet Weight      440      Grains            
Bullet Length      1.37      Inches            
Barrel Twist      18      Inches/turn            
muzzle velocity      1300      fps            
Temperature      50      degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)            
Pressure      29.92      inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)            
                       
Sg =      1.84                  
                       
Sg shouldn't be less than 1.4 (not enough spin).  If Sg is greater than about 2.0, you may gain some accuracy by going to a slower twist barrel.                        

So indications are if you have a 18:1 twist there should not be a problem with your 440 grain bullet. Confirm what twist you have.

Are you using BP? what speed are you shooting at?
Maybe a loading technique issue?
  
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Re: about bullet length for 40-90 BN
Reply #5 - Aug 4th, 2025 at 7:26pm
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Well, Dave, my 18 twist 40-60 Maynard would not perform at distance with my 410 grain bullet. I talked with Dan Theodore about it and he said, no way, that I must try a 370 grain bullet. I did and boy was he right.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: about bullet length for 40-90 BN
Reply #6 - Aug 4th, 2025 at 7:56pm
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This barrel twist and bullet weight/length thing has always puzzled me. Mainly because I look at the very old rifles that shot extremely heavy and long bullets with twist rates so slow that no shooter today would ever consider having barrels installed that were so slow. Yet somehow the shooters who competed at long range matches used 530 gr. or heavier bullets in .44-.45 caliber that were often 1:21" or 1:20" and shot groups extremely small.
I shoot a lot of old original singleshots with those slower twist rates and use heavy 480-550 grain bullets, and they shoot very well. I just don't have all the stability problems that seem to plague many modern shooters today.
I do always buy fast twist barrels for any rifles getting new barrels, but I don't see any difference between my new .40-65 barrels with 1-14" or 1:16" twist, and my old barrels with 1:20" twist using the same loads.
  

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Schuetzendave
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Re: about bullet length for 40-90 BN
Reply #7 - Aug 4th, 2025 at 11:23pm
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For my .40-60 Maynard using a 410 grain Money  1.433" versus 422 grain Creedmoor 1.366".

Caliber      0.408      Inches            
Bullet Weight      410      Grains            
Bullet Length      1.433      Inches            
Barrel Twist      18      Inches/turn            
muzzle velocity      1250      fps            
Temperature      50      degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)            
Pressure      29.92      inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)            
                       
Sg =      1.49            

Caliber      0.408      Inches            
Bullet Weight      422      Grains            
Bullet Length      1.366      Inches            
Barrel Twist      18      Inches/turn            
muzzle velocity      1250      fps            
Temperature      50      degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)            
Pressure      29.92      inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)            
                       
Sg =      1.76                  
                       
Both bullets provided good accuracy out to 400 yards @ 1,200 fps. However the pointer Money bullet would loose accuracy around 400 yards and had poor accuracy on the Rams. This was corrected by increasing the velocity to 1,250 fps to stabilize it's yaw over a longer distance. The pointier Money bullet has the center of gravity further back resulting in more yaw which needs more velocity to stabilize that yaw to shoot longer distances. The problem here is not the length of the bullet but the location of the center of gravity (which changes with nose shape).  The Creedmore bullet was stable at long distances even at 1,200 fps because its center of gravity is further forward which reduces the angle of yaw so it requires less velocity to stabilze the yaw at longer distances.      

So these length bullets are quite appropriate in a 18:1 twist barrels but bullet shape results in different center of gravity positions which change the bullet's yaw as well as the minimum velocities required to stabilize that angle of yaw. Yaw stabilization (not gyroscopic stabilization) is absolutely crucial for LONG RANGE long stability and accuracy.

Of coarse you first must obtain gyroscopic stability first at short range but long range stability requires obtaining dynamic stability which is all about the center of gravity of the bullet and the minimum velocities required to sustain that yaw angle.

Or you can do as Dan suggested and shoot shorter bullets at greater velocities instead of finding a bullet with a better center of gravity with the velocity fine tuned to stabilize your yaw. This approach precludes you from the benefits of achieving better kinetic energy from shooting heavier bullets which allow you to shoot longer distances and be less susceptible to wind drift.      
     
« Last Edit: Aug 4th, 2025 at 11:55pm by Schuetzendave »  
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marlinguy
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Re: about bullet length for 40-90 BN
Reply #8 - Aug 5th, 2025 at 5:02pm
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When it comes to stretching a cartridge's distance, I've found poor results with any somewhat pointy bullets past 200 yds. And the further out I've pushed them the worse the group sizes were. I find bullets with more weight towards the nose to hold better farther out, and big round nose bullets really hold the best for 500-1000 yd. targets.
My thoughts are the weight being much less in the front half causes bullets to destabilize when the rearward weight tries to pass the lighter nose, and bullets begin to wobble. As soon as that starts the group sizes begin to open up and not long afterwards bullets go through the targets sideways.
  

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