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jhm
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Hepburn 22 build
Jul 29th, 2025 at 8:57pm
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Went to the range this morning to try my new build and came away very disappointed and somewhat dismayed at the accuracy I got. All the match ammo I had on hand was some Wolf match and some Federal match. At 50 yards from a rest all I could get was around a two inch group with several flyers. I am thinking what is going on? Gave the barrel a good cleaning shot another group and same result. This is a RKS barrel 16.5 LH twist. I used a PTG match reamer to chamber. You would think at 50 yards I would get a one hole group. I was using tang sights. Nothing loose nothing out of sorts so other than ammo where should I go from here? Anyone shooting RKS barrels what ammo do you shoot and are these barrels more accurate with a certain brand? I am going to re cut and polish the crown in the morning and see if that helps. Other than the accuracy issues the transfer bar ignition and two piece extractor worked flawlessly. Thanks Mr Greg!



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Longdistance1
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Re: Hepburn 22 build
Reply #1 - Jul 29th, 2025 at 9:29pm
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There's your problem a right hand reamer in a left hand twist bbl. Ha ha
Try a varmet crown on the muzzle using a very sharp positive rake tool, if it won't cut your finger it isn't sharp enough!
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rifleman
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Re: Hepburn 22 build
Reply #2 - Jul 29th, 2025 at 10:09pm
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I would just keep shooting. Put 100 rounds through it with one of those brands and see what it does
  
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ssdave
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Re: Hepburn 22 build
Reply #3 - Jul 29th, 2025 at 10:13pm
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Take a small amount of 0000 steel wool, wrap it on a jag, and wipe it back and forth exactly at the chamber end and leade.  This will clean up the transition from the reamer cutting it, and it should improve the accuracy.  Without that step, it can take a few hundred rounds before a new barrel will shoot well.   

Are your flyers in any pattern?  Such as mostly vertical, mostly low, high left, etc?  That can help diagnose what is happening.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Hepburn 22 build
Reply #4 - Jul 29th, 2025 at 10:15pm
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Not sure how your eyes are, but I'd expect a bigger group with iron sights for myself. If I was looking for serious accuracy testing I'd scope the rifle, and take maybe 6 brands of ammo to test.
I put a Green Mountain $91 1.25"x27" full round barrel on my Ballard #3F and the first ammo I shot using a 15x scope at 50 yds. was .4" for 10 shots with some old PMC Target I had. I'm still trying to beat that with numerous other ammo as I'm down to just a couple thousand PMC. Hoping something else will shoot as well or better.
  

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Otony
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Re: Hepburn 22 build
Reply #5 - Jul 29th, 2025 at 10:18pm
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I’m curious as to how many rounds total you fired?

  

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jhm
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Re: Hepburn 22 build
Reply #6 - Jul 29th, 2025 at 11:39pm
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Evidently not nearly enough. I will re crown as advised (was going to do it anyway) and work the chamber as suggested. Right now it has a .050 deep recessed crown. Didn't want to put holes in that very expensive barrel but if that is what it takes. I have a Lyman Targetspot I can machine a clamp type mount for. My flyers are random and not in any real pattern. Maybe I am expecting too much too soon? Where is a good source for 22 target ammo? I picked up what I have years ago. Thanks for the ongoing help.


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ssdave
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Re: Hepburn 22 build
Reply #7 - Jul 30th, 2025 at 12:20am
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Target ammo ages out, that could be affecting the accuracy.  That's primarily from the lube losing performance.

If you can't get match ammo locally, I'd try it with some federal Automatch, at 50 yards I have shot many,  many groups under 3/4" with irons with it.  The problem with automatch is that the ammo gives persistent flyers, (about 5 out of 100) that open up small groups to 1-1/4" size at 100 yards.  At 50 yards, almost any ammo gives 1" groups with most of my rifles, so you should be doing better with your high quality barrel/rifle.

I wouldn't give up on irons.  I've shot hundreds of 5 shot groups at 100 yards that were under an inch with iron sights.
  
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Re: Hepburn 22 build
Reply #8 - Jul 30th, 2025 at 7:02am
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Try Kliiough shooting sports for Eley ammo.
They offer by lot and machine #s


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marlinguy
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Re: Hepburn 22 build
Reply #9 - Jul 30th, 2025 at 11:12am
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jhm wrote on Jul 29th, 2025 at 11:39pm:
Evidently not nearly enough. I will re crown as advised (was going to do it anyway) and work the chamber as suggested. Right now it has a .050 deep recessed crown. Didn't want to put holes in that very expensive barrel but if that is what it takes. I have a Lyman Targetspot I can machine a clamp type mount for. My flyers are random and not in any real pattern. Maybe I am expecting too much too soon? Where is a good source for 22 target ammo? I picked up what I have years ago. Thanks for the ongoing help.


JMH


I'd never D&T an original Hepburn barrel, but since this action and barrel are neither original you wont hurt the value by D&T for the 7.2" base spacing. In fact someone in the future will appreciate it has the option and they wont have to do it.
  

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bobw
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Re: Hepburn 22 build
Reply #10 - Jul 30th, 2025 at 11:31am
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marlinguy wrote on Jul 30th, 2025 at 11:12am:
jhm wrote on Jul 29th, 2025 at 11:39pm:
Evidently not nearly enough. I will re crown as advised (was going to do it anyway) and work the chamber as suggested. Right now it has a .050 deep recessed crown. Didn't want to put holes in that very expensive barrel but if that is what it takes. I have a Lyman Targetspot I can machine a clamp type mount for. My flyers are random and not in any real pattern. Maybe I am expecting too much too soon? Where is a good source for 22 target ammo? I picked up what I have years ago. Thanks for the ongoing help.


JMH


I'd never D&T an original Hepburn barrel, but since this action and barrel are neither original you wont hurt the value by D&T for the 7.2" base spacing. In fact someone in the future will appreciate it has the option and they wont have to do it.


I agree with this, I drill for scope blocks on all my builds.
Bob
  

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bobw
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Re: Hepburn 22 build
Reply #11 - Jul 30th, 2025 at 11:44am
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jhm wrote on Jul 29th, 2025 at 11:39pm:
Evidently not nearly enough. I will re crown as advised (was going to do it anyway) and work the chamber as suggested. Right now it has a .050 deep recessed crown. Didn't want to put holes in that very expensive barrel but if that is what it takes. I have a Lyman Targetspot I can machine a clamp type mount for. My flyers are random and not in any real pattern. Maybe I am expecting too much too soon? Where is a good source for 22 target ammo? I picked up what I have years ago. Thanks for the ongoing help.


JMH


This is probably pretty basic for most folks crowning a barrel but I will say it anyway.  This is how I crown a barrel.

Dial in both ends of the bore, in the lathe.
Trim to length and make the final finish cut.
I then polish the end of the barrel before crowning.
Then, when cutting the crown I make the cuts from inside out. I do this with a very sharp boring bar.
I check for burs on the inside with a q-tip.  If it leaves any cotton when pulling it out there is a bur on the inside.
If it does, you then either decide between recutting it or shoot it out
Bob


  

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Re: Hepburn 22 build
Reply #12 - Jul 30th, 2025 at 1:53pm
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Johnny,
A lot of good advice has been given here and I'd consider all of it, especially the chamber conditioning.  My Hepburn build with the RKS barrel on it is a very good shooter, how good?  So much of it depends...
What ammo I feed it - it really likes Midas Plus or some lots of Center-X, on a good day, weather (temp above 60°F) minimal wind, I can get a 10 shot group right around 1" at a hundred.  With irons? lucky to maintain 2".  For testing I use a 24x Unertl Programmer and that gets me the group.
   
On a cooler day, below 50° F, (but still above 32°) little wind, it really shoots Lapua Biathlon Extreme well and a couple of my groups have exceeded the norm with this.

If I'm shooting gongs or silhouettes with this rifle, I switch to SK Standard Plus or SK rifle match, they'll both hold minute of metal with no issues.

Now the other thing I've determined with this rifle on the bench, it's picky on how it's held.  I have an AR250 rest with a modified top using Sorbothane pillows wrapped with leather then powdered and Dima RS rear bag powdered so it has smooth motion.  Shoulder as a stop and slight forward pressure on a pin - it's happy.  It still takes me a box of ammo to remember the idiosyncrasies when we go to the range but it generally comes back to my pea brain.

I mentioned this earlier to you when you chose to build a Hepburn to "kick butt" you have your work cut out for you, compared to a Ballard, Stevens or Winchester.  The Hepburn and Rollers both have large hammers - lots of mass to get moving and heavy impacts.  When you get a scope on this thing, pick your target and fire.  Then without ejecting the empty, cock the hammer and hold center again, see where the hammer impact places the crosshairs.  Try this with a Ballard, in my experiences - barely off the point of aim, if it moved.  The Hepburn will surprise you.

You will have to work on your rest technique, trigger control, and ammo will make a huge difference.

I've tried a few cases of Eley ammo from Club to Tenex and I admire the folks that get it to shoot.  In all of my builds I've never been able to make it shoot, my guess is I don't acknowledge dimensions that work for it.
   
A 40X that's all original near pristine condition, labeled USMC Property, an Anschutz 54, and a 1922 M2 are the only rifles in my collection that shoot Eley for me.  They despise all else so I keep the stuff around.

Greg
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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rifleman
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Re: Hepburn 22 build
Reply #13 - Jul 30th, 2025 at 2:39pm
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And we want some photos of the gun Johnny.
  
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jhm
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Re: Hepburn 22 build
Reply #14 - Jul 30th, 2025 at 7:27pm
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If someone will allow me to send them by phone and post them for me yes I will provide. I used the one in Tom Rowe's book page 53 for my inspiration. Guess I was just bummed out. I have gotten so much help from you folks I wanted to report a good showing. Instead I got sour grapes lol... I have taken all tips to heart. I polished the chamber this morning and will re crown in the morning when it is cool in my shop. Going shopping for more ammo. There has got to be a silver lining in this cloud. I just got to find it.


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