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Yes I know it is not a competitive Schuetzen rifle (Read 547 times)

SchwarzStock Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1207 Location: SchwarzWald Joined: Mar 23^rd, 2010	Yes I know it is not a competitive Schuetzen rifle Dec 12^th, 2024 at 6:50pm	Print Post
	I just happened on a very nice Shiloh M1874 in 40-65. It has a single trigger with shorter type of pistol grip, not the usual ugly grip seen on the guns with double triggers, very nice wood, several finish upgrades and MVA sights. It is what I tried to order over 20 years ago from CSA but they sent me a gun with that ugly long semi-pistol grip. After a year I sold it and never tried again. This Shiloh is exactly what I wanted then except it is in 40-65. It is very close to the US price, not inflated like a rifle in a traditional Sharps cartridge or the 45-70. I am thinking hard about this rifle to replace the 45-70 I am now using in our local club Schuetzen events. So, the questions: 1. I have read I should only use new cases for forming and not the fired 45-70 cases I have. True? 2. Is there anything unusual about loading the 40-65 with either BP or Nitro? I am thinking this may be a primarily Nitro gun with lead GGBs.

	If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2846 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: Yes I know it is not a competitive Schuetzen rifle Reply #1 - Dec 12^th, 2024 at 7:27pm	Print Post
	I am not a 40-65 expert as I have only had mine for less than a month now, but I formed 50 cases from well worn 45-70 brass with no annealing using the Shiloh RCBS dies. For most, 3 passes lightly lubed with Imperial Sizing Wax worked fine. A slight trim from 2.13 to 2.10 and they were ready to go. After loading both BP and smokeless to fire form them to my chamber, I literally just loaded up 25 rounds with 2 different BP loads and they allow my preferred method of bullet seating, just a slip fit onto the compress wad. This allows me to bring a couple of different bullets to the range and load them as needed. Nothing different than I did with my 45-90. Jack

	ASSRA # 11318 just a bit of a hoot.
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oughtsix Global Moderator ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1282 Location: Columbus Joined: May 31^st, 2009	Re: Yes I know it is not a competitive Schuetzen rifle Reply #2 - Dec 12^th, 2024 at 7:39pm	Print Post
	Read thru the Texas Mac archives at ASSRA.com. Don’t know if it answers those q questions but it may help with your 40-65

	Life Member ASSRA, OGCA & TSGC I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters........ Frank Lloyd Wright
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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2331 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Yes I know it is not a competitive Schuetzen rifle Reply #3 - Dec 12^th, 2024 at 11:10pm	Print Post
	I'd take a Shiloh in 40-65 over a 45-70 any day of the week . I'm sure some will disagree though. It's an excellent cartridge and Shiloh makes very good barrels. There is nothing particularly special about reloading them. I haven't ever used smokeless in either of mine, but I imagine it would be a better smokeless cartridge than the 45-70 due to the lower case capacity. Chris.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16302 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Yes I know it is not a competitive Schuetzen rifle Reply #4 - Dec 12^th, 2024 at 11:46pm	Print Post
	I own and shoot four .40-65 rifles and used lots of both used .40-65, and reformed used .45-70 to make .40-65 for them. Never had any issues with any of it. I am a big fan of .40 caliber single shots and own a lot of other .40's in .40-63, .40-70SS, etc. and I think the .40's are a great cartridge.

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SchwarzStock Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1207 Location: SchwarzWald Joined: Mar 23^rd, 2010	Re: Yes I know it is not a competitive Schuetzen rifle Reply #5 - Dec 13^th, 2024 at 5:22am	Print Post
	gunlaker wrote on Dec 12^th, 2024 at 11:10pm: I'd take a Shiloh in 40-65 over a 45-70 any day of the week . I'm sure some will disagree though. It's an excellent cartridge and Shiloh makes very good barrels. There is nothing particularly special about reloading them. I haven't ever used smokeless in either of mine, but I imagine it would be a better smokeless cartridge than the 45-70 due to the lower case capacity. Chris. I once had a Shiloh with a 34" barrel. Would not group for squat. Slugging the barrel I discovered the muzzle was coned like a blunderbuss. Paid extra for that barrel and then had to cut it..... With the 45-70 I load a full charge of BP under a 450-500 gr bullet. It is part of my psychological warfare against the competition, the roar and smoke distracts the crap out of them

	If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16302 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Yes I know it is not a competitive Schuetzen rifle Reply #6 - Dec 13^th, 2024 at 8:18am	Print Post
	SchwarzStock wrote on Dec 13^th, 2024 at 5:22am: [quote author=3B2932303D37392E5C0 link=1734047434/3#3 date=1734063050] I once had a Shiloh with a 34" barrel. Would not group for squat. Slugging the barrel I discovered the muzzle was coned like a blunderbuss. Paid extra for that barrel and then had to cut it..... Sounds like someone installed the barrel backwards on that Shiloh! They're normally marked as to muzzle end and action end, but maybe someone goofed and reversed it.

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silver Full Member Offline Posts: 206 Location: Central wi, Joined: Sep 20^th, 2016	Re: Yes I know it is not a competitive Schuetzen rifle Reply #7 - Dec 13^th, 2024 at 9:16am	Print Post
	Never owned a Shiloh in 40-65 , have had some other makers. But if I remember correctly, Shiloh has a tighter chamber Than others , I believe rcbs has dies available marked 40-65 Shiloh.


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SchwarzStock Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1207 Location: SchwarzWald Joined: Mar 23^rd, 2010	Re: Yes I know it is not a competitive Schuetzen rifle Reply #8 - Dec 13^th, 2024 at 10:01am	Print Post
	silver wrote on Dec 13^th, 2024 at 9:16am: Never owned a Shiloh in 40-65 , have had some other makers. But if I remember correctly, Shiloh has a tighter chamber Than others , I believe rcbs has dies available marked 40-65 Shiloh. I can believe that, just was forced to pay a German gunsmith to recut a Shiloh 45-70 chamber the German proof house said was too small (all dimensions)...

	If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2846 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: Yes I know it is not a competitive Schuetzen rifle Reply #9 - Dec 13^th, 2024 at 10:52am	Print Post
	I purchased the RCBS Shiloh dies from Natchez last month. The sizing die works fine. The expander plug was a 45 not 40 but RCBS shipped a correct one out immediately. I had a Buffalo Arms .408/.410 expander already so no big deal. Of course the USPS sent it to the wrong city yesterday but it should be here today unless Canada Post gets involved. Jack

	ASSRA # 11318 just a bit of a hoot.
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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2331 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Yes I know it is not a competitive Schuetzen rifle Reply #10 - Dec 13^th, 2024 at 11:33am	Print Post
	To give you an idea of how well a Shiloh 40-65 can shoot, here is a 200m target from the last time I shot it on the paper. It's a standard German 25 rang target. 10 shots, NRA legal prone position, black powder, 200m, 6x MVA scope. I don't know how I made that flyer in the 22 ring. It's shot tighter groups than this in the past and certainly without the flyer, but since you mentioned schuetzen I thought I'd post this one on the standard target. I'm sure a talented shooter using a bench rest could get more out of it. Chris.


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texasmac Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1914 Location: Central Texas Joined: Aug 16^th, 2004	Re: Yes I know it is not a competitive Schuetzen rifle Reply #11 - Dec 14^th, 2024 at 12:19am	Print Post
	I've been shooting a Shiloh Sharps 1874 .40-65 for 6 years (5,0000 rounds so far), always with black powder & with reformed Remington .45-70 cases that were used prior to reforming. After annealing the necks they were relatively easy to reform with a RCBS Shiloh Sharps 408 resizing die & RCBS resizing lube. I love the chamber dimensions of the rifle - having never needed to resize after the very 1st fire-forming even after firing each case approximately 80 times. I do anneal the necks after each match. Have yet to loose a case. Wayne

	NRA Life (Benefactor & President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF Member, Author & Publisher of the Browning BPCR book
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