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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration (Read 17137 times)
bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #45 - Oct 31st, 2024 at 7:25pm
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steel-pounder wrote on Oct 31st, 2024 at 7:10pm:
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I do understand what you are explaining but I think this is a more advanced/durable design, probably because of it being a military version.  There must have been a reason Remington changed the design from the patent drawing.


BobW,  sorry if my previous post came off as an explanation it was ment as more of a question about if it wouldnt be an easier solution.  

     the picture of the parts you included from Toms Book looks way mor complicated to me. 


I agree with what you say about the pictured version.  I expected to see this in the gun I am working with, but was pleasantly surprised with what I found when it was disassembled.
Bob
  

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rodneys
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #46 - Oct 31st, 2024 at 10:03pm
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Bob I have been following this with Keen interest. I especially like the looks of the loop lever short range model. I had a thought ,it does happen occasionally anyway, what about using a straight taper instead of the radius. If the breech block doesn’t need it, it would be much easier to broach in. Actually, you could mill it in with the Long end mill.
« Last Edit: Oct 31st, 2024 at 11:04pm by rodneys »  
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #47 - Nov 1st, 2024 at 10:39am
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rodneys wrote on Oct 31st, 2024 at 10:03pm:
Bob I have been following this with Keen interest. I especially like the looks of the loop lever short range model. I had a thought ,it does happen occasionally anyway, what about using a straight taper instead of the radius. If the breech block doesn’t need it, it would be much easier to broach in. Actually, you could mill it in with the Long end mill.


Rodney, that’s an interest solution, but my initial thought is that it wouldn’t work.  I believe a straight taper would interfere with the rotation of the breech block, especially at the top.
Bob
  

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Chuckster
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #48 - Nov 1st, 2024 at 12:34pm
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This is great, Bob. You are doing the work and the rest of us suggesting how you should do it. Wink
On Rodney's thought: The Farrow action has a similar cut which I could not do. Was able to make straight cuts work.
Keep it original if you can and appreciate this discussion.
Chuck
  
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #49 - Nov 1st, 2024 at 7:18pm
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Wasn’t sure how I was going to measuring all the humps and valleys of the trigger guard.  This is what I decided to try.  Might be considered a little bit farmerizing! Smiley  Very close vertically, not super accurate on the horizontal, but should be close enough.  I figure ( + or - ) around .005, but even that’s a moving target depending on what is being measured.
Bob
  

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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #50 - Nov 1st, 2024 at 7:35pm
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Couple picture that I have shown before but it’s easier for folks to reference them here for what I’m talking about.

I had said before that it appeared the breech block dropped into a valley in the trigger guard and then was forced to tip back, see the picture here.   

But I wasn’t sure how it lined up with the breech block because this can’t be seen when assembled.   

I now have enough measurement that I can say it does.   

My measurement from the center of the front hole in the guard to the bottom of the valley is .794.  I don’t show it in the attached drawing but from the front of the frame to the center of the first hole is .404.  The total of the 2 is 1.198.  From the front of the frame to the center of the breech block rail mortise is 1.210.  Only .012 off and some of that is probably my measurement of the trigger guard being slightly off.
Bob
  

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rodneys
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #51 - Nov 2nd, 2024 at 6:07pm
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Bob, I did not mean to sound like I was telling you what to do I was just brainstorming. I’m going to try it if nothing else will get most of the material out of the way, and then I can hand chisel the radius in. That is what Farrow did, according to the receivers that I have examined when I was making molds  of them. I watched a video years ago of a fellow from England that was building Gibbs muzzleloaders from scratch. He chiseled out the Rigby Flats, the snail around a percussion nipple. He was using high speed, steel inserted into a steel handle. You sharpen it with a small flat on the bottom like an engraving tool. So you can control the depth of cut and use just a little bit of cutting oil. It’s amazing how much you can do with it. Just have to keep it sharp.
  
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #52 - Nov 2nd, 2024 at 6:57pm
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rodneys wrote on Nov 2nd, 2024 at 6:07pm:
Bob, I did not mean to sound like I was telling you what to do I was just brainstorming. I’m going to try it if nothing else will get most of the material out of the way, and then I can hand chisel the radius in. That is what Farrow did, according to the receivers that I have examined when I was making molds  of them. I watched a video years ago of a fellow from England that was building Gibbs muzzleloaders from scratch. He chiseled out the Rigby Flats, the snail around a percussion nipple. He was using high speed, steel inserted into a steel handle. You sharpen it with a small flat on the bottom like an engraving tool. So you can control the depth of cut and use just a little bit of cutting oil. It’s amazing how much you can do with it. Just have to keep it sharp.


Rodney, didn’t take it that you were.  One of the reasons I post builds like this here, is to get others input.  I’m not all that experienced and it’s nice getting others thoughts.

I was wondering about hand chiseling this in!  I have experience engraving so I understand the cutting tool profile but have never tried heavy material removal with a chisel.  I was going to use Greg’s method to rough it out in the mill on a test piece, then try taking it to the final radius using the chisel and see how smooth I can get it.  Of course the concave shape is going to make it more difficult!
Bob
  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #53 - Nov 2nd, 2024 at 10:20pm
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I will dig out my chisels and take a picture of them and also how they can Cut. We have the Tulsa show coming up this weekend. I’m not setting up but I will go up for a day. Bruce has something he wants to show me. Anyway, I hope you can make it out one day and if you do plan to stop by I’m just a couple miles off I-40 just east of OKC.
  
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #54 - Nov 3rd, 2024 at 10:22am
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rodneys wrote on Nov 2nd, 2024 at 10:20pm:
I will dig out my chisels and take a picture of them and also how they can Cut. We have the Tulsa show coming up this weekend. I’m not setting up but I will go up for a day. Bruce has something he wants to show me. Anyway, I hope you can make it out one day and if you do plan to stop by I’m just a couple miles off I-40 just east of OKC.


That would be great Rodney.   

I’m not headed to Tulsa, just got back from a long trip 2 weeks ago.  I need to get to Tulsa at some point and will definitely stop when I do.

I also need to give you a call at some point in the next couple weeks.
Bob
  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #55 - Nov 3rd, 2024 at 10:43am
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Rodney,  Thanks, always wondered how Farrow make that cut. Now, back to Bob's most interesting discussion.
Chuck
  
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #56 - Nov 3rd, 2024 at 12:21pm
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Here are the chisels I made. And some practice cut. I need the practice too, took too heavy of a cut on the first pass. I use high speed, steel lathe tool bits, cobalt if you can get it. It is basically heavy duty engraving. Always practice before cutting your actual project, I guarantee it will save you time in the long run.
  
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #57 - Nov 3rd, 2024 at 2:36pm
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Thanks for sharing those chisel picts Rodney... been meaning to make some up. Got a few 8% Co HSS bits... was just wondering what's a good length to make the handles? Looks like you might have one silver soldered in place?
Looks like something that the MagnaGraverII I recently picked up might help with?
Cheers!
Jeff P
  
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #58 - Nov 3rd, 2024 at 6:28pm
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Rodney, I think this may be the answer for a one-off gun like this.  I got to thinking today that I have die sinker chisel in my engraving things, I think they ate 1/4 inch.  I need to dig them out.

I think it will take a special chisel though.  I’m fairly certain I can’t cut  the full radius with a straight tool, the tool will get to the point where you can lower it enough to continue cutting and control the depth.

Looks like if you want to remove metal these chisels will do it!
Bob
  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #59 - Nov 3rd, 2024 at 8:23pm
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Jeff the handles are 4 to 5” long I drill a hole in the handle, slightly bigger than the flats on the tool and grind the corners off the tool tapering to the end and drive it on seems to work pretty good. Use mild or leaded steel. I use a medium ball peen hammer and just tap, tap, tap. And practice.
Bob I think you are correct about making a special tool to do the complete radius. I have a idea I will see if I can get it built and try it out and post.
« Last Edit: Nov 3rd, 2024 at 8:28pm by rodneys »  
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