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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration (Read 43336 times)
calledflyer
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #390 - Aug 13th, 2025 at 1:49pm
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Oh, I don't know if the British would abhor your work. But I do know that everyone here thinks it's pretty damn nice. 
I ran a cabinet shop for some time and always felt like I was cheating a customer if I didn't use some filler in each piece- I didn't cheat many, but I can really dig a stock as nice as the ones you turn out.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #391 - Aug 13th, 2025 at 5:23pm
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I'm a hack Bob, and your inletting and shaping makes me wish I was as good!
  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #392 - Aug 13th, 2025 at 6:44pm
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Man the butt end of that blank is so nice its a shame to cover it up with a plate.
  
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #393 - Aug 13th, 2025 at 7:13pm
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These first two pictures were taken as I was fitting the plate.  In these you can just see the pencil line just below the comb and how the wood stopped just above this pencil line.

The 3rd photo was taken after the top screw was made and installed.  Since the widows peak on the buttplate automatically centers the top, the screw is only needed to hold the plate against the wood.  This screw is a fillister style.

The next photo is after the lower screw was installed.  

Both of these screws, on manufactured guns, is generally a wood screw.  The issues I have with wood screws is, first they have horrible slots, wide and many time off center.  Secondly, they can change the position of the buttplate because nothing is holding except the screw head taper.  This taper on most wood screw today is not made very well and acts like an eccentric.  So as the screw change positions so does the plate.  

So on a buttplate screw, like this lower one, that not only holds the plate to the wood, but also holds it in position on the stock, I make a screw that does both with precision.  Since the plate is not very thick, I use a combination of shapes to accomplish everything I want.  The screw has the tapered 82 degree head like a wood screw.  But above the taper it is straight sided so the head is actually set into the buttplate like a fillister head would be, but very shallowly.  So it is simply a fillister screw with an 82 degree taper on the bottom.  In addition to the head features, I fit the screw shoulder, the smooth area between the head and the threads, to both the plate and the wood.  So the shoulder acts like a dowel pin, fitted to the plate and a matching hole in the wood. By doing this it correctly locate the plate no matter where the screw is tightened or how many time it is removed and replaced.

The last photo is the fully fitted plate.
It also shows how the plate is slightly lower than the wood.  This allows me, when finishing the comb line, to end up with the wood flowing back through the top of the buttplate in a straight line.  Without the plate raising or lower from the straight comb line.
Bob

Of course at some point the screw heads will be trimmed/adjusted for length and the slots timed.


« Last Edit: Aug 13th, 2025 at 7:24pm by bobw »  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #394 - Aug 13th, 2025 at 10:14pm
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Bob, I can't imagine that anyone else would analyze how screws work, how they should therefore be made and fitted, and then actually do so as precisely as you do.  Not even the storied Brits.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #395 - Sep 7th, 2025 at 10:21pm
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After three weeks away from this project I'm finally getting back to the stocking of it.

I needed to get the hole, and counterbore for the head, through the tang for the tang screw. And then get the blind hole drilled and threaded in the lower tang.

So this first picture shows the setup I used to hold both tangs in position while being work on.  The top tang is indicated level to the mill bed so the bored hole and counter bore is squared to the top tang. Since most of the forces were down this worked well.  Looks strange, but it did what it was suppose too.

Since the lower hole does not go through the lower tang everything is best to be done in one setup, including the hole through the wood.  In the second picture the wood was installed back on the frame, and the hole bored for the screw.  But, before installing the wood I lowered the end mill, through the top tang, until it contacted the lower tang and then set the depth stop on the mill.  Once the wood was back in place, I clamped the wood to the gun frame so it was tight up against the back of the frame and held solidly in place.  I then bored the hole through he wood.

Once the screw was adjusted for length, and tight, I was ready to start shaping the stock.

This third picture shows the lower tang and how deep it is inlet into the wood.

The fourth and fifth pictures show the wood shaped down close to finished size, over the tangs, getting me close to the final grip height or thickness. 
Bob




  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #396 - Sep 8th, 2025 at 12:14am
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I like your freestyle method of using 1 2 3 blocks and toe clamps to hold your work. Reminds me of my early days in the machine shop. My shop lead would sometimes criticize my set up. I found early on you use what you have on hand to get a good rigid set up. I also found out early on you had better have some good set index points for x and y axis in case you needed to remove the part for some reason. I always tried to make sure and do all the operations I needed to under one set up. That is going to be one heck of a stock...



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marlinguy
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #397 - Sep 8th, 2025 at 10:11am
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Nicely done Bob, as usual. Good tight fit on the stock to the tangs. Glad you're back on the Hpeburn!
  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #398 - Sep 8th, 2025 at 11:15am
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Thanks gentlemen. 

I know stocking a gun from a bank can be intimidating. But really, it's just a series of carefully planned steps.  But after a couple stocks it really doesn't even take much planning.  Inletting the tang and buttplate are the toughest part.  Once they are done it's just a matter of removing wood.

Layout lines are really necessary for me to shape out the wood.  You will see in these pictures many of the line.  

Here's a list of the lines I use.

1.  Center line running along the top and bottom of the stock, coming off the tang centers to the center of the buttplate.
2.  A line down each side showing the high point or thickness of the stock.  It runs from the approximate center of the grip to the thickest part of the buttplate.  I call it a light line, because once the wood is finished the light reflects down this line.  Depending on the style of stock this line can be either straight or curved.  This line should end up looking smooth and clean, with no ripples or wavering.  I also make the wood along this line straight and flat, front to rear, with no thickening like seen on many modern stocks.  By doing this I believe it gives the stock a slimmer, less heavy look.
3.  If the rifle has a curved grip or wrist, this line it drawn on each side. I like to to see this line showing the grip slightly thicker at the bottom than the top.  
4.  A center line on the grip.  This is the thickest part of the grip and the light line I mentioned above.
5.  If the rifle has a cheek rest that is drawn on the wood.
6.  On top, I also put a line on each side of center, showing the tapered comb line looking at it from the top.  This is an angled line using the thickest part at the heel of the buttplate, to the nose of the comb.  At the nose I keep it wide to start, giving me freedom to make adjustments as I shape out the wood.
7.  If the buttplate had a square bottom, like a #6 Ballard will  have, there would be similar lines here, to the comb.
8.  I also indicate where any special features may be, like the panels coming off the back of frame that make the transition from the flat frame to the round grip.
9.  At some point I also put lines on the bottom of the gip, if it is wood and not another material.  These line are just continuations from the other lines.  These helps shape the bottom of the grip.

Once these lines are on the blank they are kept on the wood until it is completed.  Many are removed while shaping but are alway replaced as necessary.
Bob
  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #399 - Sep 8th, 2025 at 11:39am
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I ran out of room in my last post, so here I finish.

My thoughts on a good looking, well proportioned gun, are when the wood gets smaller or tapers going forward, with no serious widening anywhere, including the forearm.  Of course there are specialty guns that need modifications for their intended use.  But, is what I am talking about is more the art of gun stocking, rather than a stock for special or utilitarian use of a gun.  Of course there are even variations of this art.  I think some of the guns with the extreme stock are very good looking but were really made for a very special purpose.
Bob
  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #400 - Sep 8th, 2025 at 12:08pm
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Continuing with the stocking.

Most of the following is in preparation for grinding the excess wood from the stock using a 4 inch grinder with a course sanding disk.

In this first picture some lines are clearly shown.  The comb line is shaped to within 1/16 inch of final and the lower line is within an 1/8 inch of the final profile.  This picture also shows the roughed in line running through the center, top to bottom, of the stock, or the light line I referred to before. As can be seen, it is a curved line, reflected from the curved profile of the lower stock.

The second picture shows the bottom centering line.

Third shows the top or comb lines.  The center, along with the tapered lines of the top of the comb.

Fourth, At this point I need to find the thickness at the special feature, or thumb nail transition, of the flat frame side.  This is showing me rasping it down to an even dimension from the center line of the rifle frame.  The yellow arrows are showing the cut edge angles, down to my measured thickness mark, that I make before taking the center down.  I sometimes need to make some pencil scribbles on these angles, so when taking down the center section, I can see where I am and what's happening.  They are hard to see but are there in this picture.

Lastly, this is showing what the wood looks like when taken to the thickness I wanted.  This is still thicker than what the final will be, but again, I leave extra wood here for final shaping. 
Bob
« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2025 at 12:45pm by bobw »  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #401 - Sep 8th, 2025 at 12:37pm
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Now I needed to mark in the rough location of these thumb nail transition features.

This first photo I'm showing the marks I make before drawing in the feature.  The front, top and bottom lines, come off the edge where the action frame breaks into the top and bottom radius's.  The rear mark is indicating the length of the feature.

Next, I simply draw in the feature.

Since this transition feature stands off/above the grip of the stock, the area behind them needs to be reduced.  I usually make this thickness roughly the same as the action frame thickness.

This third picture shows this reduced area of the stock on one side. This needs to be correctly/accurately done from the action center line.  From this section of the stock, the wood will be worked down, to the rear, in a straight line (thickness) to the buttplate.  As can be seen, I stayed back from the the transition, so I can make any modification during final shaping.

This fourth picture shows a couple things.  First, the bottom profile is now very close to its final shape as indicated by the yellow arrows.  Second, I have ground much of the excess wood from the the stock, as can be seen by the roughed out cheek rest standing above the rest of the wood.

Last, shows the comb side has been reduced to the angled line on the right side of the stock, but not on the left.  This was done with the grinder.   
I didn't grind off the wood on the left side...darned if I know why!!  Now I have to rasp it off!
Bob
 

  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #402 - Sep 8th, 2025 at 4:47pm
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Bob, you mentioned a 4" grinder. Is this an angle grinder you're removing wood with, and what grit disc do you use to grind away excess wood?
  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #403 - Sep 8th, 2025 at 5:54pm
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marlinguy wrote on Sep 8th, 2025 at 4:47pm:
Bob, you mentioned a 4" grinder. Is this an angle grinder you're removing wood with, and what grit disc do you use to grind away excess wood?


Vall, 
Yes, angle grinder.  Normally 36 grit, but didn’t have one.  There was an 80 grit on the grinder so started with it, it worked but not very well.  Installed a 40 grit and it was much better.  Might be the wood, but it was still tougher going compared to other woods I have used the grinder on.

But, it was 1000 times easier than a rasp!

I’ve had guys tell me there is a rotary rasp for these grinders and I need to look into that.  For obvious reasons it can’t be something that grabs.
Bob
  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #404 - Sep 8th, 2025 at 6:33pm
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Today I only had a couple hours to work on the stock.  In this first photo you can see some burning of the wood from the grinder.  I don't normally get this so I think it was just the wood give me the problem.  Everything is still over sized when done grinding so the burning is not a problem.

This first picture also shows the mid line running front to back.  This is the wood, along this line, I was referring to being flat, front to back.

The second photo is showing what I am saying.  This is still showing a small hump in the center area.  At this point in shaping the stock I just get this line close to straight.  It is much easier to finish it after the top and bottom are shaped up to this line, rather than trying to work down a wide flat area of wood like it has now.

The third photo shows the cheek rest side.  Using a simple wood tool to check for straightness over the cheek rest.  Just as the other side, I just rough this down, finishing it as I do the final shaping of the wood.  Working around the cheek rest is normally much harder than the other straight side.

This fourth photo shows the work part way through the afternoon.  Showing much more defined cheek rest.

The last photo is where the day ended.

You can see that stocking a gun is just a series of steps.

This rough shaping is the toughest physically, of stocking a gun from a blank.
Bob

  

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