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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration (Read 32759 times)
bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #255 - Mar 23rd, 2025 at 8:54pm
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At this point I only have the small tip hole, of the firing pin, completed in the breech block.  Now come the tougher part of the operation, since I have to flip the breech block over and finish the larger portion of the hole from the other direction.   

I probably don't need to say it but, these two holes need to line up.

In the first photo I am measuring the total hole length with a gage pin.  I can then set my depth for the large hole, since it does not go through and needs to stop just short of the block face. The mark can be seen at the arrow.  Not real precise, but close enough for this operation.

The tough part of machining this hole is the alignment with the first, smaller hole. In this second photo I have a gage pin that fits the hole installed.  This pin needs to be centered under the mill spindle.  This pin must, not only be centered vertically, but also horizontally on the X and y of the mill table, to the center of the mills spindle.  The first thing I did was check vertical of the clamped side of the breech block.  Thus is done with an indicator against the side of the gage pin and run up and down the pin, adjusting until it is straight.  It was a couple thousands  off so I have the gage block between the vice and breech block  to straighten it up.  Next I did 90 degrees around from the first, being sure the the pin is straight up and down, making adjustments of the breech block until it was.  The last adjustment is centering the assembly under the center of the spindle.  This is done by rotating the indicator around the pin, where the pin enters the breech block, until the indicator reads very close to zero on all four sides.  I use a .0005 (1/2 thousands) indicator and was under that amount on center. 

Again, this surface is not square to the mill head so a 3/16 end mill was used to get the hole started.  I bored in about 1/2 inch with it so I knew the hole was started straight, or as straight as I could make it anyway.  I then slowly worked the hole size up in small amounts, with drill bits, until the hole was sized for the reamer I was finishing with.  The reamer is .220 diameter, so I did run a .221 drill bit in the hole to just below the angled surface so that the reamer would not need to try starting on the angle face.

Last is the finished hole. It looks centered with the small hole, but I will not know how well until I make a firing pin, which I plan to do tomorrow.
Bob

  

Robert Warren
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calledflyer
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #256 - Mar 23rd, 2025 at 9:43pm
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fine description of the process. musta been, because I followed it right along through each entry. here's an attaboy for fine work, interesting posts and being generous enough to share all of this with us. s Smiley Smiley
  
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Old-Win
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #257 - Mar 24th, 2025 at 10:43am
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Bobw, do you lay awake at night thinking about your next move? Wink
  
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #258 - Mar 24th, 2025 at 11:27am
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calledflyer wrote on Mar 23rd, 2025 at 9:43pm:
fine description of the process. musta been, because I followed it right along through each entry. here's an attaboy for fine work, interesting posts and being generous enough to share all of this with us. s Smiley Smiley



Thank you!
  

Robert Warren
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #259 - Mar 24th, 2025 at 11:28am
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Old-Win wrote on Mar 24th, 2025 at 10:43am:
Bobw, do you lay awake at night thinking about your next move? Wink



Not so much anymore! Wink
  

Robert Warren
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #260 - Mar 29th, 2025 at 10:56am
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Next on the list of the many items to complete when building a gun from scratch is the barrel timing and fitting the breech block up to the barrel.  After that I will install and fit the extractor before chambering the barrel.

In this first picture...when I machined the radius on the inside of the frame, that radius was discussed around 12 pages back, I bumped the front of the frame, not intentionally, while trying to get to the extreme ends of the radius.  At least I was consistent in the damage, I hit both side even though on the second I was aware and trying not to! Embarrassed   

So lightly, using a diamond plate, I lapped the front of the frame, not to eliminate the dents but to be sure there were no burrs that would hold the barrel from fully seating against the frame.

The second photo shows the breech block partially lower and the barrel fit against it.  The barrel was timed to the action first, since it is a partial octagon, and then fitted to the breech block by trimming the end of the barrel stub until the action will close.

Once this work was done I could move on to my most despised job when building a gun.  Fitting the extractor!

This gun employs the 9 o'clock style which, as far as I'm concerned, it the worst of the worst.  The reason for this is that the extractor rotates from below, and this ark causes the end of the extractor to raise as it goes into the home position.  So there needs to be angles machined into the top and bottom for clearance, when fitting, to allow for this ark.

In this third photo I am showing the original (left side) next to the new extractor.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #261 - Mar 29th, 2025 at 11:54am
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Continuing with the extractor. 

This first picture shows the original and the angles, top and bottom, for the clearance I referred to in the previous post.  It also shows the angle (arrow) Remington used on the front side.  I originally thought about making this straight, which would make it much easier to install, but decided I better not because the extractor is quite thick at over .175 and didn't want the extractor cutout to get forward of the solid portion of the shell head.

The way I start this type of extractor, 9 o'clock style, is to find the approximate placement on the barrel, with the barrel fully seated against the frame.  After marking the barrel, I start the cut using a file, on edge, and at the approximate angle for the front of the extractor.  See the second picture.

The third picture is just showing the blacking and the marks left by the extractor on the barrel cut.

This file cut allows the extractor to drop partially into position. Once the above is complete, I back the barrel out of the frame to a point where the extractor is close to the finish seated or forward position, but the barrel is still in the timed position to the frame.  At this point the extractor can be marked with confidence that the placement is correct or, at least, very close to correct.

Once marked, since I know the angle of this surface on the extractor, I set the vice to that angle and machine the slot to a depth, just short of the final by around .015.  Keeping the slot fairly narrow, in this case, using a .125 end mill. See the fourth picture.

At this point, I file in a slight angle top and bottom to allow the extractor move deeper into the cut and then continue hand fitting until the extractor is fully seated into the barrel.  I do this by blacking the barrel slot and removing the high or tight spots.  At this point I am removing the frame and filing the barrel slot only.  When I get within a few thousands of the extractor fully seating, I work the extractor those last little bits.  

While fitting I keep moving the barrel as the extractor gets deeper into the barrel, 1 full turn at a time, keeping it timed to the frame, until the barrel is fully tightened and the extractor fully seated into the barrel.

This last picture shows the extractor in place.  

What a pain to get to this point. Grin
Bob

If anyone has a better way to do this type of extractor please teach me!



  

Robert Warren
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marlinguy
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #262 - Mar 29th, 2025 at 11:59am
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Wow! Just very neat to see your setup and descriptions Bob! Thanks!
  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #263 - Mar 29th, 2025 at 6:23pm
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I never changed a barrel but knew that the extractor would be a problem more daunting than the rest would be. Now, with your admission and explanation of doing it here, I'm more grateful than ever that I never tried. I'd have had one messed up collection of (probably) useless parts. I am humbled by your skill.
  
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #264 - Mar 31st, 2025 at 11:43am
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Time to make the final breech block link.
The link accomplishes several things besides just moving the breech block around, I will show them with the last picture.

In this first picture I'm show the operation of drilling holes.  The hole spacing must be correct and a mill is very capable of this accuracy.  I drill the holes slightly undersize and then finish by reaming the hole.

The second picture shows the layout of the different shapes and surfaces of the link.  To the right of the picture, on the drawing, is the hole spacing I am using.

The next two picture shows the rough out link while still in the mill.  I finished the link shapes and surfaces using files.  This only took 15 minutes to get the shape to a pre-fitted size.

In this last picture I will show how the link operates in the action.  I have several different colored arrow to assist in this.

The step at the rear of the link, shown with the green arrow, controls how far the breech block can tip back when it starts tipping while opening the action.  I have left extra material on top of the step so I can just this movement.

The brown arrow, pointing to the right side of the link.  I show this because I left .025 on this side, measured from the center of the pin holes.  This allows me some adjustment to the step length, green arrow.

The breech block had work very well when opening and closing the action until I fitted the barrel.  Once the barrel was completely fitted, and when raising, the breech block will just enter the upper straight portion of the mortice when coming out of the tipped position, and will lock up and you can not close it.  But, if I just apply light pressure to the rear lower section of the breech block it works perfectly.  While I won't know for sure until I get the link fully fitted, I believe it controls this.
 
The red arrow pointing to the angled surface on the left.  You can see the amount of material I left for adjustment.  This surface (along with the step shown by the green arrow) I believe controls the way the breech block enters the mortice I discussed above.

The blue arrow pointing to this top feature.  This does two things.

First, it retains the firing pin in the breech block.  There is no screw retaining it like most block have.

Second, it positively retracts the firing pin from the primer.  Even though Remington put a spring retract on the firing pin they still must have felt they need this. The purple arrow shows the area that moves the pin back.
Bo
« Last Edit: Mar 31st, 2025 at 11:50am by bobw »  

Robert Warren
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #265 - Mar 31st, 2025 at 2:15pm
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Holy Cow! What a wonderfully complicated and ingenious part. I'm no genius but I suggest that you make a point of using the very finest of lube grease on this thing so the delicate fit will last as long as possible.
  
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #266 - Apr 2nd, 2025 at 3:51pm
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Success! 
I made the adjustments to the link today but the breech block was still slightly off from closing, but really close.  When I cut the shoulders on the breech block (these take the pressure and hold the head space of the cartridge) and the radius in the frame, I did not put much radius in either knowing I may need to do it later while getting the action to work and fitting the breech block.  I'll show these shoulder in one of the following pictures.

Keep in mind all this steel is in the pre-polished state and will look much different when the action is completed. 

1st picture. This is the closed action as of today.  When getting the breech block to tip I had to remove more from the large radiused surface in order to get it to work.  Because of this, I have to change the shape of the frame.  This reshaping is not done, but in the end the frame will follow the breech block curvature.

2nd picture.  Here the breech block is fully opened.

3rd picture.  The arrows are pointing to the shoulders I mentioned at the beginning of this post.  That slight amount of wear you see (arrows) is where the breech block is dragging on the frame as it is closed.  This is exactly what it should look like.  The breech block is being directed by the radius that was discussed, in detail, way back when I started on this project.

The last 2 photos are of the breech block in its current state with the link in place.  The arrow in the last photo is pointing to the radius I had to change in order to get the last little bit of movement for the breech block too close.

Next on the list is to get the firing pin working with the link, as is should.
Bob
  

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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #267 - Apr 6th, 2025 at 6:37pm
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The gun is now chambered, but boy was I off on the calculations for the firing pin strike!

This first picture shows the initial hit.  The black mark is the top.  Even though it's low, I fired 3, primer shots only, through it, and they all fired.

So I made up another plain link, with no features to control the breech block, .028 longer between the holes, and the second pictures shows this primer strike.  Much better, but I'm still going to add another .002-3 to the .028 for a total of around  .030 to the link hole spacing.  This first firing pin is a loose fit  and I'm thinking the tighter final pin will also add some rise to the strike.
Bob

It's actually chambered for a 40-70 ss.  The chamber reamer is specially made for the 405 brass...works perfect.
« Last Edit: Apr 7th, 2025 at 10:52am by bobw »  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #268 - Apr 6th, 2025 at 11:04pm
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I have a High Wall that was done for me that same way by a gentleman here many years ago. It has been at least ten years. I can't remember the mans name but the chamber has worked well. I am still using the original 50 rounds of Hornady brass. Easy to load for. You will enjoy it. You have a tremendous build going and I can't wait to see the end result.



JMH
  
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #269 - Apr 9th, 2025 at 7:48pm
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The new link is giving me a much better firing pin strike. 

I also, now have the extractor fully fitted.   

The top front of the breech block will get rolled over for clearance when loading the shell.  I just cut some clearance for loading until I get to that.
Bob

  

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