Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12] 13 14 ... 16 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration (Read 17047 times)
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1638
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #165 - Jan 30th, 2025 at 7:29pm
Print Post  
The trigger was next on the list to get chopped from a blank of steel.  

The first pictures shows the steel blank, the trigger pin hole and start of the sear.  The red circled area, in the drawing, is an error I found when double checking my numbers.  The actual drawing will be corrected later.

2.Here the trigger is roughed out, but still very close to final size.  The tigger is still long and will need to be trimmed at some point, probably after I get the lever fitted.  There is also sculpting that needs to be done in-order to make it look good.

3. The trigger mortice in the tang frame.  Thought about broaching the ends of this but decided it would be faster to just file it square.

4. Clearance cuts in the tang frame so the trigger can move.

5. Trigger isn't fully down in the frame here...but close.  Once I can get it lower and the pin in, I will open this up so the trigger can fully rotate.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1638
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #166 - Feb 4th, 2025 at 11:58am
Print Post  
Little more on the trigger.   

Photos 1 and 2. It's done as far as machining goes and is fitted into the frame.  I cut the little round boss around the pin hole last, which gives the clearance so it move freely in the frame.   

This last picture shows the trigger from the top and installed in the frame.  As can be seen it's offset to the right (or down in this picture).  While the top, or sear end, is offset the actual tigger is centered in the frame.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1638
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #167 - Feb 4th, 2025 at 12:18pm
Print Post  
I'm at the point where I needed to know how the final gun profile will look.  Thing like the stock grip, overall shape, buttplate and lever.  So the last couple days I have been working on the drawing I started a couple weeks ago.  I think I have it far enough along that I can start final machining and shaping of the lower tang and get started making a lever so I can get the extractor and breech block work done and working.  As can be seen, I have probably decided on this style lever.

Photo 1.  Version one from the drawing on Sunday.

Photo 2.  The redrawing done on Monday. The grip is slightly longer and smaller/thinner.  Still not 100% sure of the shape of the lower grip schnabel, but that can be a running change.  But, so far, I do like the shape and the way checkering will flow up into the grip. 

I take pictures and study these drawings at night, on a large screen, and then make notes, usually making changes the next day.  But, in this case, when I finished on Sunday I was uncomfortable with the grip size. My gut was telling me it was too large, so the difference in the two drawings is in the the lower grip area. 
Any number you see, when it comes to wood, are very rough and change as I am shaping the stock and see how things are progressing. 
Bob
« Last Edit: Feb 4th, 2025 at 12:28pm by bobw »  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Online


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16586
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #168 - Feb 5th, 2025 at 10:43am
Print Post  
It appeared like you were going to make it a straight grip version earlier, so now it's a pistol grip. Is there enough metal to shape to pistol grip, or will it be bent to pistol grip?
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1638
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #169 - Feb 5th, 2025 at 12:26pm
Print Post  
marlinguy wrote on Feb 5th, 2025 at 10:43am:
It appeared like you were going to make it a straight grip version earlier, so now it's a pistol grip. Is there enough metal to shape to pistol grip, or will it be bent to pistol grip?


Vall, from the start I had pretty much wanted a pistol grip more like the none military version.  Also from the start, I had planned to bend this tang, takes a lot less steel this way.  

That being said, I am taking this gun to a place that is unlike either original gun.  Not sure where the forearm is going yet, but the stocks grip will be more like a regular Walker.  The buttplate more like a standard Swiss Hepburn, I have been offered an original Swiss buttplate and am seriously considering it.  Also a taller comb for better fit using a scope.  I’m still deciding if I want to use a cheek piece.  I kind of like the idea of a slim sided stock on this gun.  

I had also looked seriously at double set triggers.  Greg (gt) even loaned me a set he has, but after a couple weeks of fumbling around, trying to incorporate them into the action, I decided to stick with the single trigger.  Not that it can’t be done, it required modifications to the trigger frame and experimenting to get this done.  Then the hammer required modification for a fly and it being a split sear, with a roller for the spring, would require more modifications and time.  I only have so much time with this original gun, so I needed to move along and did.
Bob


  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Chuckster
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2251
Location: Colorado
Joined: May 15th, 2008
Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #170 - Feb 5th, 2025 at 3:04pm
Print Post  
"Helping" again Smiley. Several years ago Deadeye Bly made a very useful comment on the bottom line of my Walker Hepburn, so will paraphrase his comment:

Beautiful stock design but the bottom of the pistol grip looks odd. Think most originals reversed the "S" curve and more of a right angle to the pistol grip curve and the bottom line of the stock.
Transition from the rear of the stock to the pistol grip will be difficult with your design. Think some Maynard #16's did it with a molding. 
Bob, your previous stocks are wonderful, so take these comments FWIW.
Chuck
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1638
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #171 - Feb 5th, 2025 at 7:00pm
Print Post  
Chuck,
I understand what you are saying about the bottom of the grip, it is reversed from many originals.

But, as to the rest, are you referencing the transition area the arrows are pointing at?
Bob
  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
LRF
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Location: MN
Joined: May 8th, 2010
Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #172 - Feb 6th, 2025 at 6:42am
Print Post  
I like the smoother flow of the bottom tang of the first version. However my biggest concern is I don't care for the top tang sweeping back up, as it extends back, on either version. Characterized by the 2.700 dimension. It makes the grip look thick. I like a straight top tang, from action to where it meets the stock, then the radius up is all in the stock. What is the angle of the tang relative to the line-of-bore? The bottom tang and lever loop in the second version looks too flat and as if at the last minute you decided to add a pistol grip. Any way my 2 cents on the subject.
But since we are talking stocks, what are you going to use for wood on this rifle, American or European?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Chuckster
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2251
Location: Colorado
Joined: May 15th, 2008
Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #173 - Feb 6th, 2025 at 11:47am
Print Post  
Yes, that is the area of concern. Any pistol grip stock is a challenge for me and particularly that area.
Chuck
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1638
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #174 - Feb 6th, 2025 at 12:17pm
Print Post  
Lynn, I agree with your assessment about the bottom tang between the two versions.  On the second version, I extended the bottom line of the frame further out into the tang, intentionally, which is giving it a flat look.  I have been uncomfortable with it and your observation are confirming why!  I pushed it back trying to move the tang back and up thinning the grip area by around 3/16 inch.  Very possibly the first drawing would have been fine since most of the thickness was down toward the bottom.  At 1.6 inch this action is pretty thick/tall to start with, so that forces the grip to extends and flare as it goes back and down.  A straight stock would have been much easier.

To add to my comments above.  When I was drawing the flatter lower tang line I was thinking it would work because, looking at original Winchesters and Sharps with pistol grips, they are ofter extended back in the same way.  While they are more exaggerated, and I think look a bit odd even though I understand why they did it, I thought a little of it would work…..that’s my excuse anyway! Grin

As for the top tang, it is straight from the frame back, I actually went out and rechecked it before commenting.  It runs at about 21 degrees from the bore line.  The frame does curve coming off the raised portion for the breech block down and back to the top tang.  The original top tang is curved up coming off the frame, it’s not straight.

Looking at the lower grip of the original Walkers, it appears they hook down at a fairly sharp angle, around 64 degrees, the last 1/2 to 3/4 inch.  I was thinking this is how they thinned the grip a little but I maybe wrong.

I will redraw the lower grip and see if I can smooth it out and still keep the narrow grip as shown in the second version.

Planning on European walnut.  Still trying to find a piece I like.  I needed to get this drawing done so I have an idea what I need for size and thickness.  So far it seems most anything I like is to small in one dimension.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1638
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #175 - Feb 6th, 2025 at 1:19pm
Print Post  
Chuckster wrote on Feb 5th, 2025 at 3:04pm:
"Helping" again Smiley. Several years ago Deadeye Bly made a very useful comment on the bottom line of my Walker Hepburn, so will paraphrase his comment:

Beautiful stock design but the bottom of the pistol grip looks odd. Think most originals reversed the "S" curve and more of a right angle to the pistol grip curve and the bottom line of the stock.
Transition from the rear of the stock to the pistol grip will be difficult with your design. Think some Maynard #16's did it with a molding. 
Bob, your previous stocks are wonderful, so take these comments FWIW.
Chuck


Chuck (and Lynn) thanks for the comments.
I understand what he is saying, and for those that maybe don't, the first picture here shows the reversed curve at the bottom of the grip, compared to what I have drawn.

It will probably seem weird, but when I saw this style grip on the original Walkers, and then was drawing it, I was thinking how well I like the trigger guard on this Sharps Pistol Rifle (picture 2) and how it flows back into the wood and shape of the grip.  That trigger guard is slightly different from an original Pistol Rifle and was intentionally shaped as shown on this gun, giving it a teardrop shape.  This shape is basically the same shape as the lower grip on a Walker.

Again for those curious, here are pictures (3 and 4) of a couple original Walkers serial numbers 2 and 3.  The full length is number 3 and the close up is number 2.  Both show this reverse curve on the grip end.  They also show the modeling of the grip and how at first it looks odd but with further study it, to me anyway, looks really nice and done well with the checkering.

As to the shaping and transition between the grip and the rear stock wood.  I don't see any issue with the transition, although it will be important to get the proportions correct and the rear line at the correct angle and shape or it could look off.  The grip will probably be oval and the rear wood will come straight in to it, from the buttplate, and then shaped down around to the bottom line, my last picture here shows this.  I agree that the pistol grip stocks are tougher to work out, and get shaped, but I am getting more comfortable understanding and then doing them.

This last picture is Walker #3 shown from the bottom and showing the shape of the grip bottom, a very pleasing oval or teardrop shaping.

Now I just need to decide if I want a cheek piece or not.
Bo
  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Online


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16586
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #176 - Feb 6th, 2025 at 1:56pm
Print Post  
The original Remington pistol grip shape is very appealing to my eyes.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

But darned if I don't find the shape on the lower Walker design a lot too! I think either is a great look, and better than the standard rounded pistol grip regular Hepburn stock shape.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
LRF
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Location: MN
Joined: May 8th, 2010
Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #177 - Feb 6th, 2025 at 3:32pm
Print Post  
marlinguy wrote on Feb 6th, 2025 at 1:56pm:
The original Remington pistol grip shape is very appealing to my eyes.


Val always as good as it gets IMO. And there may be equal but not better!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
LRF
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Location: MN
Joined: May 8th, 2010
Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #178 - Feb 6th, 2025 at 3:41pm
Print Post  
bobw wrote on Feb 6th, 2025 at 12:17pm:
Lynn, I agree with your assessment about the bottom tang between the two versions.  On the second version, I extended the bottom line of the frame further out into the tang, intentionally, which is giving it a flat look.  I have been uncomfortable with it and your observation are confirming why!  I pushed it back trying to move the tang back and up thinning the grip area by around 3/16 inch.  Very possibly the first drawing would have been fine since most of the thickness was down toward the bottom.  At 1.6 inch this action is pretty thick/tall to start with, so that forces the grip to extends and flare as it goes back and down.  A straight stock would have been much easier.........

Planning on European walnut.  Still trying to find a piece I like.  I needed to get this drawing done so I have an idea what I need for size and thickness.  So far it seems most anything I like is to small in one dimension.
Bob

Thanks Bob. Have you ever thought that maybe Walker in his moments of self reflection said to himself, "Man I sure wish I would have changes the look of that grip line..." What I am saying is this is now your design and you need not copy anything exactly. Make improvements by building on the knowledge you gain from all the examples available to study. You have a hell of a project there and what ever you do it should be right.
Good choice on the wood. If I was buying wood I would be using Roger Vardy. Nice wood and good prices, IMO
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1638
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #179 - Feb 6th, 2025 at 6:29pm
Print Post  
LRF wrote on Feb 6th, 2025 at 3:41pm:
bobw wrote on Feb 6th, 2025 at 12:17pm:
Lynn, I agree with your assessment about the bottom tang between the two versions.  On the second version, I extended the bottom line of the frame further out into the tang, intentionally, which is giving it a flat look.  I have been uncomfortable with it and your observation are confirming why!  I pushed it back trying to move the tang back and up thinning the grip area by around 3/16 inch.  Very possibly the first drawing would have been fine since most of the thickness was down toward the bottom.  At 1.6 inch this action is pretty thick/tall to start with, so that forces the grip to extends and flare as it goes back and down.  A straight stock would have been much easier.........

Planning on European walnut.  Still trying to find a piece I like.  I needed to get this drawing done so I have an idea what I need for size and thickness.  So far it seems most anything I like is to small in one dimension.
Bob

Thanks Bob. Have you ever thought that maybe Walker in his moments of self reflection said to himself, "Man I sure wish I would have changes the look of that grip line..." What I am saying is this is now your design and you need not copy anything exactly. Make improvements by building on the knowledge you gain from all the examples available to study. You have a hell of a project there and what ever you do it should be right.
Good choice on the wood. If I was buying wood I would be using Roger Vardy. Nice wood and good prices, IMO


I would guess he question lots of things he did on guns….I know I question myself all the time!

I found a Roger Vardy Rifles and Stockwood, I assume this is him.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12] 13 14 ... 16
Send TopicPrint