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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration (Read 1054 times)
rifleman
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #15 - Oct 24th, 2024 at 7:23am
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Bob, now I understand….it will be exciting to see your progress. Thanks for clarifying.
  
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guilty gil
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #16 - Oct 24th, 2024 at 2:12pm
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Breach block rolls back after dropping a bit is simular to rodney's redfield 1889 action shown in dehass's potpourri book.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #17 - Oct 24th, 2024 at 3:14pm
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Bob, I'm sure that your action will be a masterpiece and you may also then know why the Hepburn/Walker Hepburns ended up the way they did instead of like the Patent;-)
  
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #18 - Oct 24th, 2024 at 7:01pm
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oneatatime wrote on Oct 24th, 2024 at 3:14pm:
Bob, I'm sure that your action will be a masterpiece and you may also then know why the Hepburn/Walker Hepburns ended up the way they did instead of like the Patent;-)


I would guess this action would be a tough one to put into production.  Going to be some hand fitting for sure.
Bob
  

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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #19 - Oct 24th, 2024 at 8:48pm
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As I said earlier there are only 2 known guns of this style.  First one Tom Rowe calls a Short Range Creedmoor in the Hepburn Book.  The other is a military style gun.  The one I am basing this gun on is the Military gun.  Looking at the different parts in this gun compared to the Creedmore, and the patent drawings, this gun is probably the more advanced.  The Breech Blocks and trigger frames are different designs. 

Here are a couple pictures of this guns trigger frame.  I have arrows pointing to a piece of steel dovetailed into the base frame and then pinned into place from the top.  This dovetailing is done on both side of the frame and I believe it was done to modify an existing frame in order to add the bump, and valley in front of the bump.  It appears this valley is the bearing surface for a mating radius on the breech block that captures the breech block.  The breech block rotate after lowering enough to clear the square thrust shoulders of the Breech Block and contacting this valley.  These picture help to understand this.

Because I am just getting started, this is all casual observations at this point and I will correct it later if I find out this works differently than I believe at this point.
Bob
  

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steel-pounder
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #20 - Oct 24th, 2024 at 10:05pm
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Bob W, so then these bumps were put in the trigger frame to do away with the screw in the side of the frame that would normally engage the breech block as it clears the rails causing it to pivot backwards?
  
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #21 - Oct 24th, 2024 at 11:05pm
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steel-pounder, if I understand what you are asking, you are referring to the lower case “a” rail in the breech block, shown in the patent drawing.  If so, I believe what you are saying is correct.

Neither of the two actual examples have that rail.  The Short range version has a cam that appears to be activated by the lever and the cam then tips the breech block.  The military version has this valley and bump that the breech block drops into and is then tipped by the link and the finger lever is opened.  This is hard to see when the parts are installed in the frame, but am fairly certain I am correct on this.  I will understand more as I get deeper into my drawing, seeing dimensions and understand what is going on inside this action.
Bob
  

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steel-pounder
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #22 - Oct 25th, 2024 at 11:54am
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Bob W,  Yes it is my understanding that the lower case a is a slot that engages the lower case f post as the breech block is dropped. when the pin "f" reaches the top of slot "a" the link then causes the BB to rotate backwards cocking the hammer.  I have some cast parts for a walker/hepburn that seem to support this but since i have never seen one except for pictures I really am clueless except for conjecture on my part.

  
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #23 - Oct 25th, 2024 at 6:26pm
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Ya, this could get really confusing looking at the different configurations.

On the surface, this version appears to be the most simple and robust. Being a military version, I believe, is the reason for this.  So it is what I am concentrating on, but we will see.  I just about have the first drawing done.  It’s a side view of the frame and hole locations.
Bob
« Last Edit: Oct 25th, 2024 at 6:34pm by bobw »  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #24 - yesterday at 11:15am
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In reply 11 I touched on a machining issue that Greg and Nate had been working on before I started looking at building one of these guns.

Here are a couple pictures of the area (red arrow).  I'm pretty sure Greg will get it worked out but, I'm not sure how I will accomplish it yet.  I'm sure some sort of special fixture will be involved and a rotary table.  My rough drawing shows the radius, as a dashed line, that the red arrow is pointing too.

Of course EDM is always an option, but what fun would that be!
Bob
  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #25 - yesterday at 4:08pm
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Yes, bobw! Interesting machining challenge cutting that "red arrow" internal radius - on both sides of the internal receiver.

Thanks for sharing... Looking forward to seeing more Wink 

Jeff P
  
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #26 - yesterday at 5:23pm
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Looks like two  internal radii?
  
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #27 - yesterday at 6:19pm
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Amoretti wrote yesterday at 5:23pm:
Looks like two  internal radii?


Actually 3.
  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #28 - yesterday at 7:47pm
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bobw wrote yesterday at 11:15am:
In reply 11 I touched on a machining issue that Greg and Nate had been working on before I started looking at building one of these guns.

Here are a couple pictures of the area (red arrow).  I'm pretty sure Greg will get it worked out but, I'm not sure how I will accomplish it yet.  I'm sure some sort of special fixture will be involved and a rotary table.  My rough drawing shows the radius, as a dashed line, that the red arrow is pointing too.

Of course EDM is always an option, but what fun would that be!
Bob


I have looked at this area a few times while contemplating a scratch build of a standard hepburn. I think this could be done pretty easily on a horizontal mill with the appropriate sized cutter. Or with fixturing on its side and a slitting saw. however in your drawing and from what i can tell from the photo this one looks to be further up towards the top of the action than on the standard hepburn. am I correct in thinking this radius is a track for the breach block rotation?
« Last Edit: yesterday at 7:55pm by steel-pounder »  
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #29 - yesterday at 8:03pm
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steel-pounder wrote yesterday at 7:47pm:
bobw wrote yesterday at 11:15am:
In reply 11 I touched on a machining issue that Greg and Nate had been working on before I started looking at building one of these guns.

Here are a couple pictures of the area (red arrow).  I'm pretty sure Greg will get it worked out but, I'm not sure how I will accomplish it yet.  I'm sure some sort of special fixture will be involved and a rotary table.  My rough drawing shows the radius, as a dashed line, that the red arrow is pointing too.

Of course EDM is always an option, but what fun would that be!
Bob


I have looked at this area a few times while contemplating a scratch build of a standard hepburn. I think this could be done pretty easily on a horizontal mill with the appropriate sized cutter. Or with fixturing on its side and a slitting saw. however in your drawing and from what i can tell from the photo this one looks to be further up towards the top of the action than on the standard hepburn. am I correct in thinking this radius is a track for the breach block rotation?


Yes, it’s the track for the breech block.  The issue is, the barrel receiving block of the frame is in the way of any normal cutter.

The other 2 can be machined using conventional methods, there’s plenty of room.

An updated picture pointing out all 3 tracks.
Bob
« Last Edit: yesterday at 8:17pm by bobw »  

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