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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration (Read 17020 times)
LRF
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #135 - Dec 25th, 2024 at 6:27am
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By George I think you've got it! (British accent assumed) Smiley See you soon.
  
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #136 - Dec 25th, 2024 at 5:51pm
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Great work Bob!
Merry Christmas,
JP
  
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #137 - Dec 29th, 2024 at 6:25pm
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Today I broached the breech block opening.  Pretty much straight forward but here are a few pictures anyway.

First picture shows the tool in the grinder.  The insert is a 1/4 inch carbide end mill shank silver soldered to the shaped blank holder.  Then ground to the profile I wanted.  That's a diamond wheel shown, diamond cuts the carbide like it's warm butter.  

This tool works very well in the broaching process.

The second photo shows the tool in use.  Aligning the tool needs to be done accurately.  I line it up against a surface I know is in alignment with the side of the hole I'm broaching.  In this case, I could use the outside surface of the frame, but instead used the breech block extension side, because I knew it was straight from the machining using an end mill.

This third photo shows all the sides and front completed.  The rear shoulders still need to be cut.  I resharpened the tool at this point so I had the best chance of getting these surface dead straight and square.  The rear shoulders, of the front wider area, is what I consider the most important surface in the breech block opening.  I like it nice and straight so the breech block set nice and firmly back against it when close and the barrel installed.

In the fourth picture the breech block mortice is complete.  A little light filing and polishing will finish it up.

This last picture is comparing the internals of the new frame with the original frame.

Still need to machine the extractor slot in the frame as can be seen in the original.  It will probably be another head scratcher. Cheesy
Bob
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #138 - Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:41pm
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Nice work Bob!
Could the extractor slot also be broached?
  

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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #139 - Dec 31st, 2024 at 12:37pm
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marlinguy wrote on Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:41pm:
Nice work Bob!
Could the extractor slot also be broached?


Very possibly Vall, but to be honest I haven’t studied it all and going to wait for now.  I’m now working on getting the tang/tigger fitted to the frame along with some screw holes.
Bob
  

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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #140 - Jan 9th, 2025 at 7:30pm
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Got the trigger/lower tang frame fitted to the action frame, and the three screw holes drilled and tapped.  And, they actually all screw in and out nicely!

After that, I've been picking away at the machining of the internal features, which has been very interesting...let alone challenging for my limited experience!

The interesting part is that the center line of the trigger, hammer and finger lever positions are all offset to the right side by about .030, but the individual parts are machined to bring the operating portion back to the center. Shocked  I'm still not 100% sure why and was going to just center everything, but in the end, decided to copy what Remington did and not take a chance on running into issues because of the change.  While I'm not 100% sure why, I believe, it's because of the extractor and the way they worked it into the frame.

In the first picture I am using the mill to help laying out the tang top surface.  All my dimensions are measured from the center line of the two screw holes.  The jig that the tang is setting on aligns the pin center line with the front surface of the jig. This way I have a way to set it up and align it properly in the mill so all my measurements work as planned.  The pins are different sizes and are centered exactly .750 back from the edge, so I zero the mill at that point and work from my original dimensions from there.

Tang is rough machine in this second picture.

In this third picture I have machined the center to what I believe to be the final dimensions.  Look close and you can see the offset by the different thickness of the sides.

In the last picture the tang is in the action frame.  The frames looking a little rough but it will get better as I get closer to being finished.  Each side is still .010 thicker than the final and they will be finished on the surface grinder just before final polishing.
Bob
  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #141 - Jan 10th, 2025 at 5:23am
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bobw wrote on Jan 9th, 2025 at 7:30pm:
....  The frames looking a little rough ....
It will buff out Smiley
looking good, Bob
  
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #142 - Jan 12th, 2025 at 9:01pm
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I was at a point where I needed to deal with the extractor cut in the frame...which I had been avoiding.  So I ended up making a tool to basically scrape it out, like was done for cleaning up the breech block mortice.  This slot is only .112 wide, I was concerned about tool flex, so the upper portion of the tool is quite heavy.  My thoughts being to keep the tool as rigid as possible, as far down as I could.  Setup in the mill and just pulling the quill handle down forcing the cutting tool through the frames steel, advancing a few thousands at a time, working the lever until the cutter doesn't cut anymore then advancing.

This first picture is the tool mounted in the mill and aligned with the frame for cutting the extractor slot.  You might notice I did not use a carbide insert this time.  I tried but, even being very careful not to over heat the carbide while sharpening, I could not get the carbide to stay on the holder.  So I ended up making it from tool steel, definitely not the best but worked well enough.

The second is the tool at work.

The third photo is what the chips look like.

The fourth photo shows the completed slot.  It actually work well, other than the tool getting dull in the last half of the operation.  I kept touching it up with diamond files.   

The last photo shows what the slot looks like at the top, in the threaded area.  Looks like the tool flexed away a small amount at it's tip.  I can still fit a .110 gage block in the slot and the arm of the extractor is .106, so it should work.  If not, I'll work this down some.
Bob
  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #143 - Jan 13th, 2025 at 5:41am
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Extractor slots are the bane of gun making. Smiley You did it well. 
Broaching is my most hated operation. BTW, what tool steel did you use for this?
  
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #144 - Jan 13th, 2025 at 11:33am
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Well done, Bob. Used to think the extractor recess was the most difficult cut to build an action, but you have discovered tougher cuts on this action.
BTW, have used 1/8" lathe cutoff blades to make a cutter for this type of slots. Built in relief.
Chuck
  
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #145 - Jan 13th, 2025 at 12:03pm
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I don’t care for any operation related to extractors.  That’s why I kept procrastinating on this job but finally got to a point I couldn’t run away from it.

Lynn, I used a piece of A2 I had laying around.

Chuck, I had a cutoff blade in my hand, thinking it would work but just couldn’t see my way to making a holder so went with the A2.  The high speed steel would have probably lasted longer.

Today I’m staring the radius cuts to the inside of the trigger assembly…..another head scratcher!  They are all clearance cuts, extractor, breech block and trigger, so they don’t need to be pretty.  I originally thought I could use a key cutter but the sides are too tall for the required radius’s.  So, back to the rotary table.

I can certainly understand why Remington never got this action into production.  A rolling block would be so much easier!
Bob
  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #146 - Jan 13th, 2025 at 1:34pm
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bobw wrote on Jan 13th, 2025 at 12:03pm:
.......
I can certainly understand why Remington never got this action into production.  A rolling block would be so much easier!
Bob
I am pretty sure you are seeing that, I think I saw it pretty quickly also, and I agree Old Man Remington, (president of Remington at the time upon seeing it) said, "what, why would we want that, and are you crazy" to the designer/engineer. Probably a marketing goo roo's idea. Hated those wizards with their hair brain ideas for new products when I worked in R&D engineering for Honeywell.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #147 - Jan 13th, 2025 at 2:17pm
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Walker didn't even patent his design until December of 1886, and not long after that Remington went bankrupt. So no Remingtons involved after bankruptcy, and Marcellus Hartley had to save the company and somehow bring it back, all while the Walker Hepburn was being developed.
It's always seemed to me that Hartley was far more interested in Sporting Rifle sales, and that's why the company even considered venturing into the development of the Walker Hepburn rifles. Had the Remington family still been involved and their goal always being military sales first, I doubt the company would have even considered making these.
  

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #148 - Jan 13th, 2025 at 6:59pm
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Today I cut the inside radius of the trigger guard, the position where the breech block drops in and forces the block to rotate back.  What a project! Cry  I found that the tighter radius, versus the large radius's in the frame, did not cut very well.  The end mill did not like it at all, they needed to be long in order to get the full radius cut.  I tried 1/2 and 3/8 inch end mills but they cut a bad looking radius.  I ended up using a 1/4 inch mill which still left a radius but not so bad that I can't live with it.  Still broke one 1/4 inch end mill and pretty much wore another out.  

Anyway, I got it done.  I think I can use a key seat cutter on the other two radius's, even if I have to make them in order to get the size I need.

I used the same setup process I used on the frame, as shown in this first picture.

The next two pictures are the finished cut in the trigger frame.

This 4th picture shows the original breech block set in the original trigger frame.

The last picture is the original breech block setting in the new trigger frame.
Bob
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #149 - Jan 14th, 2025 at 11:55am
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More great work Bob! Wish I lived closer I'd be over there watching some of this you're doing!
  

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