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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration (Read 17013 times)
AJ
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #120 - Dec 19th, 2024 at 9:59pm
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Bob,

My bet is that it is going to do just fine.  I see you used a positive rake angle.  I wonder  a how neutral negative rake would have performed?  I have to tell you that I check a couple times a day for updates on the project, and I looking forward to each new post.  No pressure though…

AJ
  
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LRF
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #121 - Dec 20th, 2024 at 5:56am
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What else can you say Bob other than nicely done. Glad the idea worked. I was sure the rack angle of the tool would be the biggest concern and although it was, it wasn't a show stopper. I am sure the craftsman back in the day would not have had such concerns as it was old hat for them.
I have a question, did you have to retract the tool a bit on the back stroke to prevent dragging the cutter edge? I am convinced that if you were going to do this more then just prototype the tool to scrape would more resemble my original concept drawing of a hand operated swing arm, which I shared back at the beginning of this thread. It would also probably incorporate some sort of clapper concept so that the tool isn't dragging the face and also allows for the downstroke feed while the tool is returning to start. Much like a shaper works.
Again, I am impressed with your ingenuity and skill.
  
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #122 - Dec 20th, 2024 at 11:40am
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Lynn and AJ,  the rake on the tool was a big “I don’t know” for me.  A real machinist would probably have a better idea what it needed to be.  I put an 8 degree rake on it thinking I would still have material to regrind it, if needed.  The tool started out doing a very nice job at taking the outside edge of the radius that the end-mill left, but got to grabbing as the tool worked down into the flat area on each side.  

That being said, I decided last night, while reading AJ’s reply, to regrind the toot to zero rake, re-setup, trying it again and see what happens.  It’s not going to hurt anything to take 2-3 thousands out of it.  I have a small gun show I’m showing at here in town this weekend, so it will be next week before I can get to it but will let you know how it goes.

Lynn, I did consider lifting the tool and tried it, but a bridgeport, at least mine, does not return precisely to the same point.  Like I mentioned the depth of cut was fussy, so with any little change it didn’t cut…or, dug in, depending on how the mill returned to the stop. So, no, I did not lift it, but when I was done the carbide was not chipped and was still very sharp. 
I chose to use the rotary table because the cutting tool was much simpler to make, but using your manual hand operated tool, I could have setup a much more robust/rigid setup using a heavy angle plate.  
Bob
  

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AJ
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #123 - Dec 20th, 2024 at 12:46pm
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Bob,  you mentioned that rake angle was a big unknown.  Really, there are so many unknowns with this project, I’m not sure how many people would be willing to take it on.  I would rate it as a 100% success right now.  Not many firearms are without machine marks internally, and I doubt it will make any difference at all in the final project.  Keep up the great work.  It is a joy to follow.

AJ
  
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AJ
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #124 - Dec 20th, 2024 at 1:44pm
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Bob,

Something else that you might want to give consideration to trying, would be to remove the rotary table handle and turn it with an electric drill. A little bit more speed may help avoid chatter.
  
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #125 - Dec 21st, 2024 at 6:31am
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After I got my head screwed back on straight, I think the neutral rake angle with a shallow heal relief, just enough to prevent the heal from bumping, may prevent the tool from wanting to dig in. (the CAD model shows a minimum of 3 degrees so I would try 5 degrees). A neutral rake will most likely require a little more force to cut.
  
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AJ
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #126 - Dec 21st, 2024 at 9:22am
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LRF,   

Another thing that might cause the tool to dig in is the location of the cutting edge on the front of the scrapper.  Since the cutting edge is forwarded of the center line of the tool, any rear flex would cause the tool to nose dive into the cut.  If the cutting edge was on, or behind, the center line, flex would cause the tool to move away from the surface.  However, the tight working space would make it difficult to move the cutting edge closer to the scrapper center line.  This is just another challenge to this difficult project that Bob is doing such a great job on!

AJ
  
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #127 - Dec 22nd, 2024 at 6:46am
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AJ wrote on Dec 21st, 2024 at 9:22am:
LRF,  

....  Since the cutting edge is forwarded of the center line of the tool, ....
AJ

Why would you think it would not be on centerline? I think Bob had it on center but he can answer that question. If you want to know the exact radius you are cutting (without consideration of tool flex) the cutter must be on centerline.
As for tool flex I would imagine there is some and Bob in one of his previous comments said as much. "Flex" exists in every machining operation as you know. The challenge being to minimize it. Working in tight spaces does not help at all. If this was a production job (back in the day) and not a one off, then a dedicated tool could be designed and built.
I look forward to Bob's experimentation with a reduced of eliminated rack angle. The fact that his tool's cutting edge (using carbide) shows no excessive wear or chipping is a plus. Fingers crossed.
  
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AJ
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #128 - Dec 22nd, 2024 at 9:12pm
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LRF,

Not sure I explained my thoughts well regarding the center line.  I hope this rough sketch explains what I was trying to convey.  Basically, the tool flexes in an arc.  If the cutting edge is forward of the center line of the tool, the flex causes it to dig in.  If the cutting edge of the tool is on the center line, or behind it, the flex causes the edge to move away from the work.
  
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #129 - Dec 23rd, 2024 at 11:11am
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Good point AJ on the center line of the tool.  We can definitely agree that there is lots going on here, so many variables.  The cutting edge of the tools is not on, or behind, the center line of the mill spindle.  Not sure there is room for the tool if the edge was moved back, unless I narrowed it up clear to the holder, at that point I would also loose some rigidity in the tool.  Been busy so I still have not got back to this, but I will let you know what happens when I do.  It’s been interesting, and appreciated,  reading you guys thoughts.
Bob
  

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AJ
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #130 - Dec 23rd, 2024 at 1:19pm
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Bob,

You are doing an amazing job on a very complex task, and any thoughts I have in your execution are purely 20/20 hindsight brainstorming.  The tight window you have to work in really dictates how tasks can be accomplished, making some ideas impossible to incorporate.  Keep up the great machining!

AJ
  
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bobw
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #131 - Dec 24th, 2024 at 6:17pm
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Got back to this today, I needed to get the rotary table off the mill so it was time.  

This first picture is the leading edge of the tool.  I ground it with a 1 degree, I think you guys call a positive rake.  I ground a 5 degree clearance angle on the bottom.  This seemed to work well.  I did not get any of the digging-in like I had before, it did take more work to pull it through each stroke, but it wasn't unbearable.  The marks left from before did somewhat come out, but not completely.  Like chatter, I think once there, it's hard to straighten up.

This second picture shows the marks that are still there from before.  This was the side that looked the worst.

The third picture is the other, better side.

Last picture shows the new, next to the original.

Over all, I think this should work just fine.
Thanks all!
Bob
  

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jhm
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #132 - Dec 24th, 2024 at 9:19pm
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That's some fine work...



JMH
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #133 - Dec 24th, 2024 at 10:24pm
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Excellent work Bob!
  

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AJ
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Re: Next Project, Hepburn Walker Patent Configuration
Reply #134 - Dec 24th, 2024 at 11:03pm
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A month ago, we were all contemplating how that concave cut would be accomplished, and today you got it done.  Great work Bob!
  
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